Re: The flip side of UBI/ Universal Basic Income - beware what you ask for - [MONEY]
Exhibit #1 : As Trump Threatens Tehran Over Censorship, Facebook's Thought-Police Censor Pro-Iran Posts https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/trump-threatens-tehran-over-censorship-... https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/while-trump-warns-tehran-of-censorshi... The hypocrisy is unbelievable. In order to comply with United States sanctions on Iran, Facebook’s thought police have taken to censorship on behalf of the government. At the same time, President Donald Trump warns Iran not to use censorship. ... “These massive Big Tech corporations are Thought Police for the US government: Facebook and Instagram are removing posts expressing support for Iran’s top general Soleimani,” journalist Ben Norton tweeted. “They say it’s to comply with US sanctions, but how do posts violate sanctions? –RT https://www.rt.com/news/478044-instagram-iran-trump-censorship/ ... ----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> ----- From: Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 21:46:06 +1100 Subject: The flip side of UBI/ Universal Basic Income - beware what you ask for - [MONEY] UBI, what could possibly go wrong? IOW, be (very) careful what you ask for ... Universal Basic Income: A Dream Come True For Despots https://www.zerohedge.com/political/universal-basic-income-dream-come-true-d... ... “What do you think the potential disadvantages of the basic income would be, then?” [My neighbour] replies, “There aren’t any.” Trade-Offs Are Inescapable ... But the universal basic income seems unaffected. It’s going to cure poverty, eliminate stress, reduce crime, unleash entrepreneurship, emancipate women, save us from AI, and fight climate change. I’m not not exaggerating. I googled, and there are multiple articles claiming that, not only will the UBI save the economy from flatlining due to a lack of consumer demand by increasing consumption, but somehow also put a halt to global warming as well — contradictory as these two aims may seem. ... Trusting the World's Regimes to Do Good? Most people agree that politics is a dirty game and that political powers will inevitably be used to further the agenda of officeholders and their cronies. That said, despite being immersed in the current thinking regarding UBI for three years now, I have seen precious little worrying as to what the government — or a future government — might actually do once it has seized control over everyone’s purse strings. After all, these governments are composed of the same people who launched a permanent war in the Middle East, wasting trillions of dollars on destroying millions of lives. These governments bailed out the banks from the public purse and gave themselves raises after telling the rest of the nation we had to tighten our belts. They have robbed the young of the opportunity to own a home by sending house prices through the roof and mean to leave them a nation in ruinous debt. They continue locking away huge numbers of people for decades for victimless crimes, leaving their children to be raised single-handed. They created an oligopoly of higher education provision forcing generations into student debt that cannot be defaulted on, and healthcare systems that are so restrictive that people must pay inordinate sums to get care or are otherwise forced onto government waiting lists so long that many of their conditions are chronic or untreatable before they are seen to. Am I the only one who thinks these powers may be used for evil rather than good? China’s “Credit System” One such cautionary tale may be found in China. ... [ -------------- money quote --------------- ] Now a basic income guarantee may begin universal, but as the years wear on and it proves expensive to provide, it might be that corners have to be cut in order to ensure its continued fungibility. Hardly anyone will object to the UBI being withdrawn from criminals, for example. And then perhaps for antisocial behaviour. People may have their universal basic income docked for committing petty crimes like littering the street. A few might moan that this is the beginning of a government social engineering program, but to most people this will seem like a quite a sensible and reasonable measure. After all, we all “benefit” from the benevolence of society providing our roads and schools, and now our basic income. So if some choose to repay society in disrespect, with such vulgar behaviour as littering, throwing away the ends of cigarettes, spitting on the street, failing to remove their dog foul, or what have you, why should society continue to furnish them with the fullness of a basic income? Besides, if their basic income is docked for several months they are unlikely to repeat the crime — they will soon learn their lesson. It will save money on law enforcement, lengthy court trials, and prison sentences as well, all of which are costly. Clipping people’s basic income will soon seem the most sensible and appropriate response to many crimes and misdemeanours. People may be sanctioned for things like not sorting out their recycling. After all, the government provides garbage disposal for us, and the environment is at stake. Governments are already looking at sanctioning people for this kind of behaviour, so the step would not be much of a leap. These steps will simply be designed to acclimatize people to the idea of being “nudged” in the right direction before more radical measures are taken to use the UBI to shape their behaviour. ... In China people can have their social credit score docked for posting fake news online. We may, of course, ask, fake according to whom? After all, the Chinese government maintains that the Tienanmen Square Massacre of 1989 was “fake news” drummed up by the West to undermine the regime. Closer to home, the mainstream media was entirely complicit in selling the war on Iraq to the public, but I very much doubt we will see people being sanctioned for posting news from mainstream sources such as the BBC or MSNBC. Our leaders are above falsifying our historic records and sending embarrassing incidents down the memory hole for permanent deletion. The purse strings of the universal basic income also present a grave threat to freedom of speech. Anyone who has been following the “woke wars” on Twitter and other social media platforms will have heard of people receiving lifetime bans for tweeting things like “Men are never women.” Now whether you believe such a message is transphobic or otherwise, you may at least believe that someone has the right to tweet it, and be duly educated as to the wrongs of their action by other users. The universal basic income could easily become the new weapon to wield against those who hold unpopular opinions or those that are simply no longer politically correct. It will be first used to strike against unpopular groups such as racists, misogynists, homophobes, and bigots. Not many people will come to their defense when they lose their basic income for spreading hate. But one day you yourself may hold an unpopular opinion that is relatively benign. Maybe you will say that people shouldn’t have their basic income docked just because they say unpopular things on the internet. You will not just be slapped with a Twitter ban, you will potentially lose $1000 a month. ... The UBI will institutionalise the state as each of our patrons — and us as wards of the state. Once this relationship is established we will enter into a frightening era where the government is our provider and the UBI can easily be weaponized by our rulers to shape us into compliance. ----- End forwarded message -----
The following is in the context of "we have a government." UBI firmly on the table: Pelosi Pitches Universal Basic Income To Cope With Pandemic https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/pelosi-pitches-universal-basic-in... .. Pelosi: A minimum guaranteed income may now be "worthy of attention." pic.twitter.com/19W3gwKGm4 and Trump asks why Democrat run states should be bailed out: Trump Asks Why American Taxpayers Should Bail Out "Poorly Run, Democrat" States https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/trump-asks-why-american-taxpayers-should... .. Why should the people and taxpayers of America be bailing out poorly run states (like Illinois, as example) and cities, in all cases Democrat run and managed, when most of the other states are not looking for bailout help? I am open to discussing anything, but just asking? So the bankers have finally realised that throwing moral risk out the window, and instituting UBI, might help support their financialization pyramid. And presently, Democrat run cities and states (exclusively) are seeking bailouts for the pension funds and general financial messes they (not the reds) get into. One possible solution to this "problem" is as follows: 1) Issue UBI/ universal basic income, to every American adult. 2) Eliminate non-UBI income tax - only tax allowed is UBI taxation. 3) (Democrat) states tax this government issued "income" according to their "need" to rescue their own financial shit. Democrat run states will, it certainly appears, be doing the most taxing against UBI. And watch at least some folks move away from Democrat run states. On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 02:55:16PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Exhibit #1 :
As Trump Threatens Tehran Over Censorship, Facebook's Thought-Police Censor Pro-Iran Posts https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/trump-threatens-tehran-over-censorship-... https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/while-trump-warns-tehran-of-censorshi...
The hypocrisy is unbelievable. In order to comply with United States sanctions on Iran, Facebook’s thought police have taken to censorship on behalf of the government. At the same time, President Donald Trump warns Iran not to use censorship.
...
“These massive Big Tech corporations are Thought Police for the US government: Facebook and Instagram are removing posts expressing support for Iran’s top general Soleimani,” journalist Ben Norton tweeted. “They say it’s to comply with US sanctions, but how do posts violate sanctions? –RT https://www.rt.com/news/478044-instagram-iran-trump-censorship/
...
----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> -----
From: Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 21:46:06 +1100 Subject: The flip side of UBI/ Universal Basic Income - beware what you ask for - [MONEY]
UBI, what could possibly go wrong?
IOW, be (very) careful what you ask for ...
Universal Basic Income: A Dream Come True For Despots https://www.zerohedge.com/political/universal-basic-income-dream-come-true-d...
... “What do you think the potential disadvantages of the basic income would be, then?”
[My neighbour] replies, “There aren’t any.”
Trade-Offs Are Inescapable ... But the universal basic income seems unaffected. It’s going to cure poverty, eliminate stress, reduce crime, unleash entrepreneurship, emancipate women, save us from AI, and fight climate change. I’m not not exaggerating. I googled, and there are multiple articles claiming that, not only will the UBI save the economy from flatlining due to a lack of consumer demand by increasing consumption, but somehow also put a halt to global warming as well — contradictory as these two aims may seem.
... Trusting the World's Regimes to Do Good?
Most people agree that politics is a dirty game and that political powers will inevitably be used to further the agenda of officeholders and their cronies. That said, despite being immersed in the current thinking regarding UBI for three years now, I have seen precious little worrying as to what the government — or a future government — might actually do once it has seized control over everyone’s purse strings.
After all, these governments are composed of the same people who launched a permanent war in the Middle East, wasting trillions of dollars on destroying millions of lives. These governments bailed out the banks from the public purse and gave themselves raises after telling the rest of the nation we had to tighten our belts. They have robbed the young of the opportunity to own a home by sending house prices through the roof and mean to leave them a nation in ruinous debt. They continue locking away huge numbers of people for decades for victimless crimes, leaving their children to be raised single-handed. They created an oligopoly of higher education provision forcing generations into student debt that cannot be defaulted on, and healthcare systems that are so restrictive that people must pay inordinate sums to get care or are otherwise forced onto government waiting lists so long that many of their conditions are chronic or untreatable before they are seen to.
Am I the only one who thinks these powers may be used for evil rather than good?
China’s “Credit System”
One such cautionary tale may be found in China. ...
[ -------------- money quote --------------- ] Now a basic income guarantee may begin universal, but as the years wear on and it proves expensive to provide, it might be that corners have to be cut in order to ensure its continued fungibility. Hardly anyone will object to the UBI being withdrawn from criminals, for example. And then perhaps for antisocial behaviour. People may have their universal basic income docked for committing petty crimes like littering the street. A few might moan that this is the beginning of a government social engineering program, but to most people this will seem like a quite a sensible and reasonable measure. After all, we all “benefit” from the benevolence of society providing our roads and schools, and now our basic income. So if some choose to repay society in disrespect, with such vulgar behaviour as littering, throwing away the ends of cigarettes, spitting on the street, failing to remove their dog foul, or what have you, why should society continue to furnish them with the fullness of a basic income? Besides, if their basic income is docked for several months they are unlikely to repeat the crime — they will soon learn their lesson. It will save money on law enforcement, lengthy court trials, and prison sentences as well, all of which are costly. Clipping people’s basic income will soon seem the most sensible and appropriate response to many crimes and misdemeanours. People may be sanctioned for things like not sorting out their recycling. After all, the government provides garbage disposal for us, and the environment is at stake. Governments are already looking at sanctioning people for this kind of behaviour, so the step would not be much of a leap. These steps will simply be designed to acclimatize people to the idea of being “nudged” in the right direction before more radical measures are taken to use the UBI to shape their behaviour.
... In China people can have their social credit score docked for posting fake news online. We may, of course, ask, fake according to whom? After all, the Chinese government maintains that the Tienanmen Square Massacre of 1989 was “fake news” drummed up by the West to undermine the regime. Closer to home, the mainstream media was entirely complicit in selling the war on Iraq to the public, but I very much doubt we will see people being sanctioned for posting news from mainstream sources such as the BBC or MSNBC. Our leaders are above falsifying our historic records and sending embarrassing incidents down the memory hole for permanent deletion. The purse strings of the universal basic income also present a grave threat to freedom of speech. Anyone who has been following the “woke wars” on Twitter and other social media platforms will have heard of people receiving lifetime bans for tweeting things like “Men are never women.” Now whether you believe such a message is transphobic or otherwise, you may at least believe that someone has the right to tweet it, and be duly educated as to the wrongs of their action by other users. The universal basic income could easily become the new weapon to wield against those who hold unpopular opinions or those that are simply no longer politically correct. It will be first used to strike against unpopular groups such as racists, misogynists, homophobes, and bigots. Not many people will come to their defense when they lose their basic income for spreading hate. But one day you yourself may hold an unpopular opinion that is relatively benign. Maybe you will say that people shouldn’t have their basic income docked just because they say unpopular things on the internet. You will not just be slapped with a Twitter ban, you will potentially lose $1000 a month.
... The UBI will institutionalise the state as each of our patrons — and us as wards of the state. Once this relationship is established we will enter into a frightening era where the government is our provider and the UBI can easily be weaponized by our rulers to shape us into compliance.
----- End forwarded message -----
participants (1)
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Zenaan Harkness