Behind the curve. The mathematics of deaths.
Please recirculate freely. Behind the curve. The mathematics of deaths. The present United Kingdom strategy on COVID-19 was to initially try to contain the virus with a weak containment policy, and when that failed to move to the "delay phase" we are in now to try to slow its spread. This delay would place a lower maximum load on healthcare, spread heathcare requirements over time, and thereby allow more per-patient care. An underlying assumption and consequential end result of that policy is that practically everybody in the UK will inevitably eventually catch the virus. And the Red Death will hold illimitable dominion over all. The strategy made sense if, as was believed when it was made, there would be no way of eventually stopping the epidemic by containment, something I myself believed. However, that does not seem to be the case: the disease is not quite as infectious as at first thought, as recent evidence shows that the Chinese have managed to slow it almost to a stop using strong confinement. If they succeed in containing the disease, as seems very likely, then most Chinese people will never catch the virus - whereas if the present UK policy is continued then at some point a majority of people in the UK will catch the disease, and a million people will die unnecessarily [1]. So what new policy should be adopted? Well we have the Chinese example to follow. Strong containment is working for the Chinese, it should work for us. All people entering the UK should be quarantined. The UK has a "moat" in the seas surrounding it, and should take advantage of that. Schools and universities should close. Large public gatherings should be banned. People should be encouraged to wear masks, not discouraged - even a tiny difference in transmission rate can be the straw which will make the difference between the epidemic dying out or growing: that is how the chain reaction of an epidemic works. If each infected person infects more than one other person on average then the epidemic spreads, if on average each infected person infects less than one then the epidemic dies out. We should be taking extreme measures to get that figure of new infections per case down to less than 1. Testing should be stepped up by at least an order of magnitude. Medical staff should have the power to require testing, and if positive then quarantine should be enforced if necessary. But most of all, we have to stop thinking that a million people will die and there is nothing we can do to prevent it. Diligent and intense containment can work if we are willing to pay the price now, the Chinese example is proof of that. Any delay in implementing strong containment will cost lives. Failing to implement strong confinement will result in a million unnecessary deaths over the next few months. [1] "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joe Stalin. The UK age demographic contains more older people than the Chinese, and older people are far more likely to die of COVID-19 than younger people; so the UK fatality rate would be more than the Chinese rate, which works out to a bit over a million deaths if we assume 3/4 of the population get the virus. A delay to provide better health care might reduce the death toll to about a million. Strong confinement now could reduce it to a few thousand. Peter Fairbrother
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 09:54:54PM +0000, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Please recirculate freely.
Behind the curve. The mathematics of deaths.
The present United Kingdom strategy on COVID-19 was to initially try to contain the virus with a weak containment policy, and when that failed to move to the "delay phase" we are in now to try to slow its spread. This delay would place a lower maximum load on healthcare, spread heathcare requirements over time, and thereby allow more per-patient care.
An underlying assumption and consequential end result of that policy is that practically everybody in the UK will inevitably eventually catch the virus.
s/assumption/intention/ TFTFY.
And the Red Death will hold illimitable dominion over all.
Racist terminology - please re-read the Bee's guide to non-racist terminology.
The strategy made sense if, as was believed when it was made, there would be no way of eventually stopping the epidemic by containment, something I myself believed.
You are truly a seer.
However, that does not seem to be the case: the disease is not quite as infectious as at first thought,
Au-contraire, a quick check of le Wakky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_disease_2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu conclusively shows us that COVID-19 is literally far more infectious than the Spanish flu - and man, that Spanish flu was no shrinking violet, as it (according to the inglorious Wakky) literally infected a minimum of 140% up to possibly 280%, of the entire world's population! So it looks like with COVID-19, we could well see upwards of 400 to 500% of the ENTIRE WORLD's POPULATION get infected. Imagine the deaths!
as recent evidence shows that the Chinese have managed to slow it almost to a stop using strong confinement.
If they succeed in containing the disease, as seems very likely, then most Chinese people will never catch the virus
Do we know yet if the virus, after incubation period, entirely stops being contagious? Do we know yet for certain there is no latent/dormancy in those who "once had" been infected?
- whereas if the present UK policy is continued then at some point a majority of people in the UK will catch the disease, and a million people will die unnecessarily [1].
And you're holding that to be a bad thing, even if it does happen? [Damn! Did I just ask that? Talk about effective long term propaganda ...]
So what new policy should be adopted? Well we have the Chinese example to follow. Strong containment is working for the Chinese, it should work for us.
That will SO reduce the toilet paper grab-arse!
All people entering the UK should be quarantined.
s/entering // TFTFY!#!
The UK has a "moat" in the seas surrounding it, and should take advantage of that.
By dropping most "native UK"ians from helicopters into the moat, closely followed by crocodiles!
Schools and universities should close. Large public gatherings should be banned.
But that might reduce the infection rate of this "just the flu bro"?
People should be encouraged to wear masks, not discouraged
Which masks, exactly, are you suggesting? Remember, any incorrect answer is a life and death thing for some...
- even a tiny difference in transmission rate can be the straw which will make the difference between the epidemic dying out or growing:
Acktschuallay, one theory is that today, ~100 years on, we ALL are infected with Spanish flu - we, of course, are the survivors... (Call the Spanish flu COVID-1918, or COVID-18 for short...)
that is how the chain reaction of an epidemic works. If each infected person infects more than one other person on average then the epidemic spreads, if on average each infected person infects less than one then the epidemic dies out.
Bat soup, bruh! The bird bat soup will always bring back the COVID-19. If you're susceptible and fearful, better to die out and let those who are resistant claim all the leftover gibs.
We should be taking extreme measures to get that figure of new infections per case down to less than 1.
How extreme? I hear a bullet can reduce the areal transmission boundary for an individual...
Testing should be stepped up by at least an order of magnitude.
I do agree with this one - given the infection rate of say (on average for COVID-19) 500% of the population, we should have at least a 600% (/ population) testing rate to get on top of this.
Medical staff should have the power to require testing, and if positive then quarantine should be enforced if necessary.
Vaccinations. Don't forget the mandatory vaccinations. Perhaps the cultlery enriched London should lead the charge on preventative COVID-19 vaccinations - I know I'd avoid a vaccine that you poms ave not tested properly first. Right-e-o then, duty to the kingdom ya know, so get to it - stiff upper lip an' all! Get testing already.
But most of all, we have to stop thinking that a million people will die and there is nothing we can do to prevent it.
You needed to put some of that in all caps - too many folks will miss the subliminal message you sent out otherwise. Here, I is fix it for you:
But most of all, WE HAVE TO STOP THINKING. A MILLION PEOPLE WILL DIE. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO PREVENT IT.
There, Fixed That For Ya!
Diligent and intense containment
We could make the vaccinations more intense by inserting the needle into the buttocks really slowly. Then the nurse can laugh, apologize, say they missed the right spot, and do it all over again, really slowly, this time in the shoulder.
can work if we are willing to pay the price now, the Chinese example is proof of that. Any delay in implementing strong containment will cost lives. Failing to implement strong confinement will result in a million unnecessary deaths over the next few months.
On a more serious note, given the UK is an island with a moat, then on a global scale it is a very reasonable proposition to send all COVID-19 infectees to the "UK as a quarantine station".
[1] "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joe Stalin.
Ah finally, you're coming around to the Z.g's point of view! I always suspected you were a closet fascist! Agree now: it feels much better to be honest about your truth.
The UK age demographic contains more older people than the Chinese, and older
Are you sure? There's a lot of Chinese in (the now multiple) China town(s) across the UK? You might be right that there are more older people in the UK than the Chinese people in the UK, but your stats might be off on this one...
people are far more likely to die of COVID-19 than younger people; so the UK fatality rate would be more than the Chinese rate, which works out to a bit over a million deaths if we assume 3/4 of the population get the virus.
3/4? That's only 75%! You're an order of magnitude off the science bro! At -best- (according to wiki) it should be a minimum of over 400% of the world's population..
A delay to provide better health care might reduce the death toll to about a million. Strong confinement now could reduce it to a few thousand. Peter Fairbrother
On 12/03/2020 23:56, Zig the N.g wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 09:54:54PM +0000, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Please recirculate freely.
Behind the curve. The mathematics of deaths.
The present United Kingdom strategy on COVID-19 was to initially try to contain the virus with a weak containment policy, and when that failed to move to the "delay phase" we are in now to try to slow its spread. This delay would place a lower maximum load on healthcare, spread heathcare requirements over time, and thereby allow more per-patient care.
An underlying assumption and consequential end result of that policy is that practically everybody in the UK will inevitably eventually catch the virus.
s/assumption/intention/
TFTFY.
You might be right.
And the Red Death will hold illimitable dominion over all.
Racist terminology - please re-read the Bee's guide to non-racist terminology.
The strategy made sense if, as was believed when it was made, there would be no way of eventually stopping the epidemic by containment, something I myself believed.
However, that does not seem to be the case: the disease is not quite as infectious as at first thought,
Au-contraire, [snip]
Infectiousness has no direct correlation to infected ratio. And comparing COVID-19 with Spanish Flu or anything other than a perceived measure of COVID-19's infectiousness misses my point - COVID-19 is at least a little less infectious than _we thought_ it was.
as recent evidence shows that the Chinese have managed to slow it almost to a stop using strong confinement. - whereas if the present UK policy is continued then at some point a majority of people in the UK will catch the disease, and a million people will die unnecessarily [1].
And you're holding that to be a bad thing, even if it does happen?
[Damn! Did I just ask that? Talk about effective long term propaganda ...]
Maybe not (and now you may see my true colours, though they were never hidden). The UK has a large proportion of older people. Older people who need extensive healthcare, expensive pensions, who tie up a lot of wealth and property - of the predicted million deaths about 900,000 would be older types. This clearing away of unproductive and expensive (and wealthy) population would more than balance the budget, would release several hundred thousand badly-needed homes (and cause a property price crash; the UK needs about 1 million homes, which is why UK property is so expensive. I have been trying to work out the price elasticity of housing in the UK if several hundred thousand properties became available, but it is hard) and would provide a more balanced population pyramid. For the UK as a nation it would not be a bad thing (ignoring the deaths), and I fear some politicians think "Hey, it's just the useless oldies, who cares?". But I care. Where there is life there's hope, and the biggest fuck-you you can give is to death. Do not go gentle and all that crap. But even the Chinese didn't do that. Initially they didn't realise, later, well, perhaps they revere the old more, perhaps it's just because they have less old people. And yes, that is probably a bit racist, but after Tiananmen and forced abortions we westerners have the impression that the Chinese have a lower respect for life than we do. Which is probably nonsense, it's just the Japs who're like that.
People should be encouraged to wear masks, not discouraged
Which masks, exactly, are you suggesting? Remember, any incorrect answer is a life and death thing for some...
Any masks, even those with only minimal effectiveness - I am not talking about protecting yourself but about protecting the population, and any reduction in exponential rate is better than none. Though good masks will obviously help protect you better than bad ones, or no masks at all. After all, Medical people use the good masks - if they didn't work at least a bit, why would they bother?... If you want a non-expert opinion I'd recommend 3M 8835+ for a disposable [2] respirator, see: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi94v2IrpboAhWUiVwKHYXEC9sQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aaqr.org%2Farticle%2Fdownload%3FarticleId%3D1436%26path%3D%2Ffiles%2Farticle%2F1436%2F17_AAQR-16-09-OA-0390_1305-1315.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0RAiKZh0sttRYU7LAdyS6b figure 3c, but I use a reuseable respirator (which I bought long before COVID-19) with 3M 6035 P3 filters myself. Don't forget the goggles, Bolle ULTIM8 are not too large and unwieldy. And learn to use them, in this case actually do RTFM. [2] they can in theory be reused, but need sterilisation in between uses to protect against viruses - UV or sunlight plus seal wipe should work, but don't get the white parts wet.
- even a tiny difference in transmission rate can be the straw which will make the difference between the epidemic dying out or growing: that is how the chain reaction of an epidemic works. If each infected person infects more than one other person on average then the epidemic spreads, if on average each infected person infects less than one then the epidemic dies out.
Bat soup, bruh! The bird bat soup will always bring back the COVID-19.
Ah yes, suppose we do manage to stop the infection in the UK (and people in other countries do not). We will then have a still-vulnerable population, whereas those other countries will not, we will have a lot of expensive-to-keep old people; comparatively as a country we would be disadvantaged if not to say fucked. At least until someone develops a vaccine or a cure. Only took ten years for AIDS...
We should be taking extreme measures to get that figure of new infections per case down to less than 1.
How extreme?
I hear a bullet can reduce the areal transmission boundary for an individual...
Yes, sometimes that extreme. If they are going to kill other people if you don't shoot them, and they refuse a reasonable alternative, then you may have to shoot them. But beware, bullets can spread viruses in blood spatter etc.; and they don't always kill or even prevent areal spread of infected people.
The UK age demographic contains more older people than the Chinese, and older
Are you sure? There's a lot of Chinese in (the now multiple) China town(s) across the UK? You might be right that there are more older people in the UK than the Chinese people in the UK, but your stats might be off on this one...
Chinese people (in China) https://www.indexmundi.com/china/age_structure.html vs UK people (in the UK). https://www.indexmundi.com/united_kingdom/age_structure.html For some reason the data comes from the CIA ... Peter Fairbrother
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 02:25:37AM +0000, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
On 12/03/2020 23:56, Zig the N.g wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 09:54:54PM +0000, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Please recirculate freely.
as recent evidence shows that the Chinese have managed to slow it almost to a stop using strong confinement. - whereas if the present UK policy is continued then at some point a majority of people in the UK will catch the disease, and a million people will die unnecessarily [1].
And you're holding that to be a bad thing, even if it does happen?
[Damn! Did I just ask that? Talk about effective long term propaganda ...]
Maybe not (and now you may see my true colours, though they were never hidden). The UK has a large proportion of older people. Older people who need extensive healthcare, expensive pensions, who tie up a lot of wealth and property - of the predicted million deaths about 900,000 would be older types.
This clearing away of unproductive and expensive (and wealthy) population would more than balance the budget, would release several hundred thousand badly-needed homes (and cause a property price crash; the UK needs about 1 million homes, which is why UK property is so expensive. I have been trying to work out the price elasticity of housing in the UK if several hundred thousand properties became available, but it is hard) and would provide a more balanced population pyramid.
For the UK as a nation it would not be a bad thing (ignoring the deaths), and I fear some politicians think "Hey, it's just the useless oldies, who cares?".
But I care. Where there is life there's hope, and the biggest fuck-you you can give is to death. Do not go gentle and all that crap.
But even the Chinese didn't do that. Initially they didn't realise, later, well, perhaps they revere the old more, perhaps it's just because they have less old people.
And yes, that is probably a bit racist, but after Tiananmen and forced abortions we westerners have the impression that the Chinese have a lower respect for life than we do.
Which is probably nonsense, it's just the Japs who're like that.
I am, astounded. Notwithstanding, what the UK really needs is a lot (!) more infiniggimmigration, to finally fill up the demand for employees in the tech sector and increase the high-income tax base (upper middle class) from the government can draw abundant funds for such things as further housing, health and other programs needed by the elderly. You really gotta get with the program. ...
We will then have a still-vulnerable population, whereas those other countries will not, we will have a lot of expensive-to-keep old people; comparatively as a country we would be disadvantaged if not to say fucked.
Infiniggimmigration, bruh!
At least until someone develops a vaccine or a cure. Only took ten years for AIDS...
We should be taking extreme measures to get that figure of new infections per case down to less than 1.
How extreme?
I hear a bullet can reduce the areal transmission boundary for an individual...
Yes, sometimes that extreme. If they are going to kill other people if you don't shoot them, and they refuse a reasonable alternative, then you may have to shoot them.
HIV is a far greater problem I say, especially in infants up to 6 months old - mandatory 0-day vaccinations are a must, and, as always, the UK must lead the empire like a bull by the nose. I agree that bullets should only be reserved for those who fail to comply.
But beware, bullets can spread viruses in blood spatter etc.; and they don't always kill or even prevent areal spread of infected people.
Damn! Science will invent better bullets, fer sure! And you UKians can test 'em for us, eh?
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 01:41:13PM +1100, Zig the N.g wrote:
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 02:25:37AM +0000, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
On 12/03/2020 23:56, Zig the N.g wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 09:54:54PM +0000, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
Please recirculate freely.
as recent evidence shows that the Chinese have managed to slow it almost to a stop using strong confinement. - whereas if the present UK policy is continued then at some point a majority of people in the UK will catch the disease, and a million people will die unnecessarily [1].
And you're holding that to be a bad thing, even if it does happen?
[Damn! Did I just ask that? Talk about effective long term propaganda ...]
Maybe not (and now you may see my true colours, though they were never hidden). The UK has a large proportion of older people. Older people who need extensive healthcare, expensive pensions, who tie up a lot of wealth and property - of the predicted million deaths about 900,000 would be older types.
This clearing away of unproductive and expensive (and wealthy) population would more than balance the budget, would release several hundred thousand badly-needed homes (and cause a property price crash; the UK needs about 1 million homes, which is why UK property is so expensive. I have been trying to work out the price elasticity of housing in the UK if several hundred thousand properties became available, but it is hard) and would provide a more balanced population pyramid.
For the UK as a nation it would not be a bad thing (ignoring the deaths), and I fear some politicians think "Hey, it's just the useless oldies, who cares?".
But I care. Where there is life there's hope, and the biggest fuck-you you can give is to death. Do not go gentle and all that crap.
But even the Chinese didn't do that. Initially they didn't realise, later, well, perhaps they revere the old more, perhaps it's just because they have less old people.
And yes, that is probably a bit racist, but after Tiananmen and forced abortions we westerners have the impression that the Chinese have a lower respect for life than we do.
Which is probably nonsense, it's just the Japs who're like that.
I am, astounded.
Notwithstanding, what the UK really needs is a lot (!) more infiniggimmigration, to finally fill up the demand for employees in the tech sector and increase the high-income tax base (upper middle class) from the government can draw abundant funds for such things as further housing, health and other programs needed by the elderly.
You really gotta get with the program.
...
We will then have a still-vulnerable population, whereas those other countries will not, we will have a lot of expensive-to-keep old people; comparatively as a country we would be disadvantaged if not to say fucked.
Infiniggimmigration, bruh!
At least until someone develops a vaccine or a cure. Only took ten years for AIDS...
We should be taking extreme measures to get that figure of new infections per case down to less than 1.
How extreme?
I hear a bullet can reduce the areal transmission boundary for an individual...
Yes, sometimes that extreme. If they are going to kill other people if you don't shoot them, and they refuse a reasonable alternative, then you may have to shoot them.
HIV is a far greater problem I say, especially in infants up to 6 months old - mandatory 0-day vaccinations are a must, and, as always, the UK must lead the empire like a bull by the nose.
Welp, the UK has utterly dropped the ball on this one - as your body is the responsibility of the state, "Denmark has passed an emergency law that allows for the government to force people to take a vaccine for coronavirus." Denmark Passes Law Enabling Forced Coronavirus Vaccinations https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/denmark-passes-law-enabling-forced-co... https://summit.news/2020/03/16/denmark-passes-law-enabling-forced-coronaviru... The emergency law gives authorities sweeping powers to tackle the COVID-19 pandemic and will remain in force until March 2021. Citizens who refuse to be tested for the coronavirus will face fines and potential prison time, and will be prevented from entering shops, grocery stores, public institutions and hospitals while also being restricted from using public transport. “As well as enforcing quarantine measures, the law also allows the authorities to force people to be vaccinated, even though there is currently no vaccination for the virus,” reports the Local. https://www.thelocal.dk/20200313/denmark-passes-far-reaching-emergency-coron... Copenhagen University law professor Jens Elo Rytter said the new measures were “certainly the most extreme since the Second World War.” The initial draft of the law was even more draconian, and would have allowed police to enter private homes without a warrant if there was a suspicion of a coronavirus infection. However, this measure was dropped after opposition from other parties in the Parliament. Denmark currently has 875 recorded coronavirus cases and has registered 2 deaths.
I agree that bullets should only be reserved for those who fail to comply.
But beware, bullets can spread viruses in blood spatter etc.; and they don't always kill or even prevent areal spread of infected people.
Damn!
Science will invent better bullets, fer sure!
And you UKians can test 'em for us, eh?
We each are with the fundamental right to choose what, if anything, is inserted into our body, be it a vaccination, a medication, food, drink, or any object whatsoever. We have fundamental sovereignty over our own body. Our sovereignty over our own body, exists regardless of the consequences of choosing to insert, or to not insert, or to have inserted, or to not have inserted, any substance or object into our body. The state, that is any government, doctor, nurse or any other "authority", may suggest, inform, attempt to educate and/or otherwise recommend, the insertion of any particular substance or object into our body, but they have no human right to force this on another human, regardless of the consequences upon the individual. Our right over our body is absolute, and is above the state's "right" over our body. Live your right to informed consent (and right to non-consent), or lose these rights and suffer the consequences. World’s No. 1 Tennis Player Says He Opposes Vaccination, Doesn’t Want Coronavirus Vaccine http://dstormer6em3i4km.onion/worlds-no-1-tennis-player-says-he-opposes-vacc... Novak Djokovic, currently ranked No. 1 in men’s single tennis. This is a concern that many people have, so it’s a good thing that a prominent figure voices it openly. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-8236039/Novak-Djokovics-rel... World No 1 Novak Djokovic’s opposition to vaccines could stand in the way of his return to tennis when it eventually it resumes following the coronavirus pandemic. A push is growing for all players to be vaccinated when tennis starts again, provided one is produced by then. Former world No 1 Amelie Mauresmo last month said tennis should not resume unless players can be vaccinated, although the scientific community has repeatedly said that may be a year away. Personally I am opposed to vaccination and I wouldn’t want to be forced by someone to take a vaccine in order to be able to travel,’ Djokovic said in a live Facebook chat with several fellow Serbian athletes on Sunday. ‘But if it becomes compulsory, what will happen? I will have to make a decision. ... Choose wisely, and consider supporting the right of others to make their own informed choices, free from any coercion from the state, from doctors, from nurses, or from any other "authority".
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:41:21PM -0400, Joshua Case wrote:
We have fundamental sovereignty over our own body.
Good luck with that.
There may sometimes be consequences to exercising your soveign authorities and fundamental rights. Sometimes such consequences are very significant. Notwithstanding any consequence, the right remains to resist, to live your own sovereign authority. How you choose to live your own authority (within the bounds of your capacities), is a matter for you, the individual human.
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:56:05AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:41:21PM -0400, Joshua Case wrote:
We have fundamental sovereignty over our own body.
Good luck with that.
There may sometimes be consequences to exercising your soveign authorities and fundamental rights.
Sometimes such consequences are very significant.
Notwithstanding any consequence, the right remains to resist, to live your own sovereign authority.
How you choose to live your own authority (within the bounds of your capacities), is a matter for you, the individual human.
One thing to keep in mind - the consequences for exercising any particular right (/freedom), may vary depending on the number of people exercising that right. For example, one individual protesting by marching in opposition to the lock down, will basically be ignored by the media. On the other hand, when dozens or hundreds of individuals gather in the same protest, the outcome may be quite different: America On The Brink? Shocking Images Show "Pennsylvania Militia" Rolling Up To "Reopen America" Rally https://www.zerohedge.com/political/stunning-images-suggest-america-brink-so... Expecting "someone else to fix it" leads to "democracy" and despotism. Living a right individually may carry heavy consequences upon that individual. Collective peaceful protest can shift an empire - e.g. Gandhi.
If it says "Vaccination" on the label, inject it immediately: MSM 2018: Swine-Flu Vaccine Side-Effects So Bad ‘That Children Were Like Schizophrenics’ https://www.anti-empire.com/msm-2018-swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-so-bad-t... And here we were thinking if it says 'vaccine' on the label you should inject it Ralph Riegel 2 Jun 20 Children who developed narcolepsy after being given the swine flu vaccine were affected by such serious sleep-disorder related conditions that some were initially thought to be suffering from schizophrenia. The revelation came as the solicitors acting for two-thirds of those now suing the State over having received the controversial vaccine Pandemrix warned that a redress scheme was simply not enough and that full accountability was required for what happened. In severe cases, sufferers can fall asleep at any time – when they are eating, sitting watching TV or even while working in a school classroom. Many suffer from cataplexy – loss of muscle tone – causing them to collapse like a puppet when experiencing extreme emotions. They also suffer from sleep paralysis, rendering them unable to move while they experience hallucinations. In many cases, the severity of these dreams and nightmares, and their understandable consequences for young people, led doctors to suspect a form of schizophrenia before narcolepsy was finally diagnosed. Solicitors Michael Boylan and Gillian O’Connor warned that those patients who developed narcolepsy from Pandemrix now suffered from a life-long condition. Mr Boylan said what sufferers had endured was simply beyond belief. “There is no cure. This is something that these people, many of whom are children, are going to have to live with and cope with for the rest of their lives,” he said. “While redress is very important in terms of supporting them as they live their lives, one size does not fit all. “Redress will not deliver or answer the fundamental issue of how this happened and what accountability there will be. “This is not Ireland in the 1950s or 1960s. This only happened nine years ago, and people are entitled to answers about what happened.” Ms O’Connor said that a key element was why families were informed a vaccine was perfectly safe for use when health chiefs knew that it had not been fully tested. She queried why healthcare workers administering the vaccine were advised that it was untested, but the public was told it was safe. She added that it was further inferred that Pandemrix was as a safe as the ordinary flu vaccine, which had been on the market for 60 years. Around 100 people are now suing the State over the provision of the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 and 2010. A test case is already before the High Court and the Health Minister. The HSE and vaccine makers GlaxoSmithKline have already spent millions of euro in defending it. Sufferers of Unique Narcolepsy Disorder (Sound), a group which represents those affected by the vaccine, stressed that they accept the State acted with the best intentions in 2009 when the World Health Organisation (WHO) warned of an imminent swine flu pandemic. “We are not anti-vaccine, and it is very important to stress that,” co-founder Tom Matthews said. Source: Independent.ie https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-...
Remember goys and gals, your own body's natural immune system should be treated with the utmost suspicion - in fact, we should not even talk about this taboo subject at all!! Bill Gates is very wealthy, and he has a really big cheesy smile, so he must really know what he's talking about, and that's really all we need to know - just one of life's lovely little certainties: We Don't Need No Stinking Vaccine For COVID-19 Jeff Harris via The Ron Paul Institute for Peace & Prosperity, http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2020/june/09/w... https://www.zerohedge.com/health/we-dont-need-no-stinking-vaccine-covid-19 .. With the 24/7 media circus coverage of Covid-19 I find it particularly interesting that there is an obvious glaring omission of some extremely important facts relative to dealing with a virus, especially one that is allegedly so virulent like this one. Yes, I read all about the critical need to shelter in place, stay inside away from other people, wash your hands constantly, avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth, wear your face mask and by all means observe social distancing if you MUST venture outside for food! .. But what is assiduously avoided at all cost is any reference to our most potent defense against any virus; our body’s natural immune system. Try as I might I couldn’t find anything about this first line of defense on the World Health Organizations (WHO) website or Centers for Disease Control (CDC) website. It’s as if it doesn’t exist and is completely irrelevant. If these organizations were genuinely concerned about the health of citizens they would obviously discuss the vital role a healthy immune system plays in protecting us from illnesses. But since they don’t its obvious some other motive is at work, at least to me, and I strongly suspect to other critical thinkers as well. We now know from the science and data that over 90% of the people exposed to Covid-19 have no symptoms at all or at worst a mild cold. The flu vaccines we have are only effective 30% to 60% of the time and the bugs change regularly so a vaccine that worked OK last year may barely work at all this year. Let’s learn some more about our body’s immune system. ... Subject: Your body's natural immune system ought NEVER be trusted -- Re: If it says "Vaccination" on the label, inject it immediately - Re: We have the right to choose which medications, substances and objects are inserted into our body. -- Re: Denmark mandatory COVID vaccinations On Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 05:54:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
If it says "Vaccination" on the label, inject it immediately:
MSM 2018: Swine-Flu Vaccine Side-Effects So Bad ‘That Children Were Like Schizophrenics’ https://www.anti-empire.com/msm-2018-swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-so-bad-t...
And here we were thinking if it says 'vaccine' on the label you should inject it Ralph Riegel 2 Jun 20
Children who developed narcolepsy after being given the swine flu vaccine were affected by such serious sleep-disorder related conditions that some were initially thought to be suffering from schizophrenia.
The revelation came as the solicitors acting for two-thirds of those now suing the State over having received the controversial vaccine Pandemrix warned that a redress scheme was simply not enough and that full accountability was required for what happened.
In severe cases, sufferers can fall asleep at any time – when they are eating, sitting watching TV or even while working in a school classroom.
Many suffer from cataplexy – loss of muscle tone – causing them to collapse like a puppet when experiencing extreme emotions. They also suffer from sleep paralysis, rendering them unable to move while they experience hallucinations.
In many cases, the severity of these dreams and nightmares, and their understandable consequences for young people, led doctors to suspect a form of schizophrenia before narcolepsy was finally diagnosed.
Solicitors Michael Boylan and Gillian O’Connor warned that those patients who developed narcolepsy from Pandemrix now suffered from a life-long condition.
Mr Boylan said what sufferers had endured was simply beyond belief.
“There is no cure. This is something that these people, many of whom are children, are going to have to live with and cope with for the rest of their lives,” he said.
“While redress is very important in terms of supporting them as they live their lives, one size does not fit all.
“Redress will not deliver or answer the fundamental issue of how this happened and what accountability there will be.
“This is not Ireland in the 1950s or 1960s. This only happened nine years ago, and people are entitled to answers about what happened.”
Ms O’Connor said that a key element was why families were informed a vaccine was perfectly safe for use when health chiefs knew that it had not been fully tested.
She queried why healthcare workers administering the vaccine were advised that it was untested, but the public was told it was safe.
She added that it was further inferred that Pandemrix was as a safe as the ordinary flu vaccine, which had been on the market for 60 years.
Around 100 people are now suing the State over the provision of the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 and 2010.
A test case is already before the High Court and the Health Minister. The HSE and vaccine makers GlaxoSmithKline have already spent millions of euro in defending it.
Sufferers of Unique Narcolepsy Disorder (Sound), a group which represents those affected by the vaccine, stressed that they accept the State acted with the best intentions in 2009 when the World Health Organisation (WHO) warned of an imminent swine flu pandemic.
“We are not anti-vaccine, and it is very important to stress that,” co-founder Tom Matthews said.
Source: Independent.ie https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-...
Professor Sir John Bell, professor of medicine at Oxford University: “These vaccines are unlikely to completely sterilize a population. They are very likely to have an effect which works in a %, say 60 or 70%.” https://theduran.com/these-vaccines-are-unlikely-to-completely-sterilize-a-p... We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Is Safe Because It’s Called a Vaccine Vaccines are safe. All of them. The Covid Rouge Marko Marjanović https://www.anti-empire.com/we-know-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-safe-because-bec... Long-term trials are for pussies. And science-deniers. 2019: Vaccines are safe because they’re so thoroughly tested for short-term and long-term side effects alike. So if you’re declining an approved and tried-and-true jab you’re just being irrational and superstitious. 2020: Here is the first-ever vaccine of its kind (mRNA) that is essentially untested and was rolled out in all of 6 months with no chance to study long-term side effects whatsoever, but it’s safe because it’s called a vaccine and other vaccines that are approved after extensive long-term trials that this vaccine did nor receive are safe. Call me crazy but it would seem the argument changed a little bit here? What if a person wanted to remain a pro-vaxxer of the 2019 variety? What if someone took the position of “shoot me up with as many vaccines as possible AFTER they have gone through rigorous and extensive trials including long-term ones and passed them”? That would now be deemed selfish, dangerous, irresponsible, unjustifiable, silly, dumb buffoonish, stupid, and against your health interest. What was an orthodoxy when this year started is now heretical. We’re living in an Orwellian reality where what is almost universally held true one moment, can become a thought-crime of the highest order in the next one. Forget about common sense. Forget about being allowed to keep an awareness of proportion, context, and second-order consequences. We are not even allowed to keep to the orthodoxies of 2019. Everything must fall to the Covid Rouge and its Year Zero reset. So remember citizen. The Covid-19 vaccine is safe because it’s called a vaccine and other vaccines that are approved after the kind of trials this vaccine did not receive are safe. Very simple to understand. Besides, it’s a vaccine for an extremely deadly plague with a 99.98% survival rate for the under 60 that you definitely don’t want to take your chances with. Much better to bet on the extremely low likelihood of human folly, and place yourself in the tender care of fanatics. That has a much better track record. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward After all, humans unintentionally sacrificing other humans to their fanaticism, ideology, messianic complexes, panic, cowardice, and pride — that almost never happens. https://www.anti-empire.com/2020-the-year-governments-killed-hundreds-of-tho... Well, maybe it could happen. But surely the chance is much smaller than 0.02%. Surely. Because if the chance that the money-hungry Big Pharma, clueless politicians, and the Messianic COVID Rouge overlooked something is much greater than 0.02% then it would make sense for the majority to take their chances with nature’s coronavirus instead. But that’s not the case, surely. If the likes of Boris Johnson say it’s safe that’s good enough for me. I don’t even need a long-term trial. And it seems neither do they. Funny how that works though. Up until now you were supposed to — if at all possible — not even leave your room. Risk aversion was everything. Is the world going to hell in a handbasket? Yes, but that’s the price we’re willing to pay in order to spare you from having to take an unknown risk. In fact, we believe so strongly in you not taking a risk that we’re willing to strip you of rights to prevent you from being able to do it yourself. But now that there’s an experimental vaccine based on completely novel technology? Well now go right ahead and inject yourself with that! Take a ride on the wild side! To do less would be to deny science. And in fact, we may take away your rights if you don’t. Sometimes we keep you from risk, sometimes we push you into risk. But what is a constant is that your rights are always the collateral damage. You know. By accident. Because we know what’s best for you, for us. And what’s best for you for us, is that your rights be held by us in escrow. Really in the long view, you will come to see this whole Covid business as a blessing as it will have more firmly placed you in the hands of your betters. Things will be so much better from now on. Particularly for us. And for you. Once you develop a taste for weather-sustainable cockroach milk. On Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 05:54:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
If it says "Vaccination" on the label, inject it immediately:
MSM 2018: Swine-Flu Vaccine Side-Effects So Bad ‘That Children Were Like Schizophrenics’ https://www.anti-empire.com/msm-2018-swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-so-bad-t...
And here we were thinking if it says 'vaccine' on the label you should inject it Ralph Riegel 2 Jun 20
Children who developed narcolepsy after being given the swine flu vaccine were affected by such serious sleep-disorder related conditions that some were initially thought to be suffering from schizophrenia.
The revelation came as the solicitors acting for two-thirds of those now suing the State over having received the controversial vaccine Pandemrix warned that a redress scheme was simply not enough and that full accountability was required for what happened.
In severe cases, sufferers can fall asleep at any time – when they are eating, sitting watching TV or even while working in a school classroom.
Many suffer from cataplexy – loss of muscle tone – causing them to collapse like a puppet when experiencing extreme emotions. They also suffer from sleep paralysis, rendering them unable to move while they experience hallucinations.
In many cases, the severity of these dreams and nightmares, and their understandable consequences for young people, led doctors to suspect a form of schizophrenia before narcolepsy was finally diagnosed.
Solicitors Michael Boylan and Gillian O’Connor warned that those patients who developed narcolepsy from Pandemrix now suffered from a life-long condition.
Mr Boylan said what sufferers had endured was simply beyond belief.
“There is no cure. This is something that these people, many of whom are children, are going to have to live with and cope with for the rest of their lives,” he said.
“While redress is very important in terms of supporting them as they live their lives, one size does not fit all.
“Redress will not deliver or answer the fundamental issue of how this happened and what accountability there will be.
“This is not Ireland in the 1950s or 1960s. This only happened nine years ago, and people are entitled to answers about what happened.”
Ms O’Connor said that a key element was why families were informed a vaccine was perfectly safe for use when health chiefs knew that it had not been fully tested.
She queried why healthcare workers administering the vaccine were advised that it was untested, but the public was told it was safe.
She added that it was further inferred that Pandemrix was as a safe as the ordinary flu vaccine, which had been on the market for 60 years.
Around 100 people are now suing the State over the provision of the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 and 2010.
A test case is already before the High Court and the Health Minister. The HSE and vaccine makers GlaxoSmithKline have already spent millions of euro in defending it.
Sufferers of Unique Narcolepsy Disorder (Sound), a group which represents those affected by the vaccine, stressed that they accept the State acted with the best intentions in 2009 when the World Health Organisation (WHO) warned of an imminent swine flu pandemic.
“We are not anti-vaccine, and it is very important to stress that,” co-founder Tom Matthews said.
Source: Independent.ie https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-...
4 volunteers develop FACIAL PARALYSIS after taking Pfizer Covid-19 jab, prompting FDA to recommend ‘surveillance for cases’ https://www.rt.com/usa/509081-pfizer-vaccine-fda-bells-palsy-covid/ Four trial participants who received the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine experienced facial paralysis, according to the Food and Drug Administration. The FDA said the issue should be monitored as the jab becomes more widely available. …According to the documents, Bell’s palsy, a form of temporary facial paralysis, was reported by four participants during phase 3 trials. The individuals had been administered the jab, and no members of the placebo group experienced similar adverse effects. …However, the FDA claimed that the frequency of the health issue is “consistent with the expected background rate in the general population,” and added that there was no clear evidence linking the coronavirus vaccine to the unpleasant medical condition. Still, the federal regulator recommended “surveillance for cases of Bell’s palsy with deployment of the vaccine into larger populations.” The FDA noted the “numerical imbalance” of Bell’s palsy cases among the vaccine and placebo groups, but said there were no other “non-serious adverse events” that showed a similar pattern. According to the documents, side effects are common but appear to be minor. Out of the trial participants, 84 percent experienced some kind of reaction. After receiving the jab, 63 percent of trial subjects reported fatigue and 55 percent said they suffered from headaches. Chills were reported by 32 percent of participants, 24 percent complained of joint pain and 14 percent developed a fever. [and DIRECTLY after that list, this nugget:] Overall, the jab appears to have received good marks from the FDA. In its report, the regulator said that the two-dose vaccine is about 50 percent effective even after just the first injection. The vaccine is believed to be 95 percent effective after the second dose, administered three weeks later. The FDA also found that the jab reduced the risk of severe Covid-19 symptoms after the first dose. [except for the Bell's palsy and all those other side effects, and your normal immune system being effective for your survival in 99.7% of cases. And note, from the WHO themselves: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-p... Most people who get COVID-19 have mild or moderate symptoms and can recover thanks to supportive care. If you have a cough, fever and difficulty breathing seek medical care early - call your health facility by telephone first. If you have fever and live in an area with malaria or dengue seek medical care immediately. ] On Mon, Dec 07, 2020 at 10:26:25AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Professor Sir John Bell, professor of medicine at Oxford University: “These vaccines are unlikely to completely sterilize a population. They are very likely to have an effect which works in a %, say 60 or 70%.” https://theduran.com/these-vaccines-are-unlikely-to-completely-sterilize-a-p...
We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Is Safe Because It’s Called a Vaccine Vaccines are safe. All of them. The Covid Rouge Marko Marjanović https://www.anti-empire.com/we-know-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-safe-because-bec...
Long-term trials are for pussies. And science-deniers.
2019: Vaccines are safe because they’re so thoroughly tested for short-term and long-term side effects alike. So if you’re declining an approved and tried-and-true jab you’re just being irrational and superstitious.
2020: Here is the first-ever vaccine of its kind (mRNA) that is essentially untested and was rolled out in all of 6 months with no chance to study long-term side effects whatsoever, but it’s safe because it’s called a vaccine and other vaccines that are approved after extensive long-term trials that this vaccine did nor receive are safe.
Call me crazy but it would seem the argument changed a little bit here?
What if a person wanted to remain a pro-vaxxer of the 2019 variety?
What if someone took the position of “shoot me up with as many vaccines as possible AFTER they have gone through rigorous and extensive trials including long-term ones and passed them”?
That would now be deemed selfish, dangerous, irresponsible, unjustifiable, silly, dumb buffoonish, stupid, and against your health interest.
What was an orthodoxy when this year started is now heretical.
We’re living in an Orwellian reality where what is almost universally held true one moment, can become a thought-crime of the highest order in the next one.
Forget about common sense. Forget about being allowed to keep an awareness of proportion, context, and second-order consequences. We are not even allowed to keep to the orthodoxies of 2019.
Everything must fall to the Covid Rouge and its Year Zero reset.
So remember citizen. The Covid-19 vaccine is safe because it’s called a vaccine and other vaccines that are approved after the kind of trials this vaccine did not receive are safe. Very simple to understand.
Besides, it’s a vaccine for an extremely deadly plague with a 99.98% survival rate for the under 60 that you definitely don’t want to take your chances with.
Much better to bet on the extremely low likelihood of human folly, and place yourself in the tender care of fanatics. That has a much better track record. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward
After all, humans unintentionally sacrificing other humans to their fanaticism, ideology, messianic complexes, panic, cowardice, and pride — that almost never happens. https://www.anti-empire.com/2020-the-year-governments-killed-hundreds-of-tho...
Well, maybe it could happen. But surely the chance is much smaller than 0.02%. Surely. Because if the chance that the money-hungry Big Pharma, clueless politicians, and the Messianic COVID Rouge overlooked something is much greater than 0.02% then it would make sense for the majority to take their chances with nature’s coronavirus instead. But that’s not the case, surely. If the likes of Boris Johnson say it’s safe that’s good enough for me. I don’t even need a long-term trial. And it seems neither do they.
Funny how that works though. Up until now you were supposed to — if at all possible — not even leave your room. Risk aversion was everything. Is the world going to hell in a handbasket? Yes, but that’s the price we’re willing to pay in order to spare you from having to take an unknown risk. In fact, we believe so strongly in you not taking a risk that we’re willing to strip you of rights to prevent you from being able to do it yourself.
But now that there’s an experimental vaccine based on completely novel technology? Well now go right ahead and inject yourself with that! Take a ride on the wild side! To do less would be to deny science. And in fact, we may take away your rights if you don’t.
Sometimes we keep you from risk, sometimes we push you into risk. But what is a constant is that your rights are always the collateral damage. You know. By accident. Because we know what’s best for you, for us.
And what’s best for you for us, is that your rights be held by us in escrow. Really in the long view, you will come to see this whole Covid business as a blessing as it will have more firmly placed you in the hands of your betters. Things will be so much better from now on. Particularly for us. And for you. Once you develop a taste for weather-sustainable cockroach milk.
On Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 05:54:26PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
If it says "Vaccination" on the label, inject it immediately:
MSM 2018: Swine-Flu Vaccine Side-Effects So Bad ‘That Children Were Like Schizophrenics’ https://www.anti-empire.com/msm-2018-swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-so-bad-t...
And here we were thinking if it says 'vaccine' on the label you should inject it Ralph Riegel 2 Jun 20
Children who developed narcolepsy after being given the swine flu vaccine were affected by such serious sleep-disorder related conditions that some were initially thought to be suffering from schizophrenia.
The revelation came as the solicitors acting for two-thirds of those now suing the State over having received the controversial vaccine Pandemrix warned that a redress scheme was simply not enough and that full accountability was required for what happened.
In severe cases, sufferers can fall asleep at any time – when they are eating, sitting watching TV or even while working in a school classroom.
Many suffer from cataplexy – loss of muscle tone – causing them to collapse like a puppet when experiencing extreme emotions. They also suffer from sleep paralysis, rendering them unable to move while they experience hallucinations.
In many cases, the severity of these dreams and nightmares, and their understandable consequences for young people, led doctors to suspect a form of schizophrenia before narcolepsy was finally diagnosed.
Solicitors Michael Boylan and Gillian O’Connor warned that those patients who developed narcolepsy from Pandemrix now suffered from a life-long condition.
Mr Boylan said what sufferers had endured was simply beyond belief.
“There is no cure. This is something that these people, many of whom are children, are going to have to live with and cope with for the rest of their lives,” he said.
“While redress is very important in terms of supporting them as they live their lives, one size does not fit all.
“Redress will not deliver or answer the fundamental issue of how this happened and what accountability there will be.
“This is not Ireland in the 1950s or 1960s. This only happened nine years ago, and people are entitled to answers about what happened.”
Ms O’Connor said that a key element was why families were informed a vaccine was perfectly safe for use when health chiefs knew that it had not been fully tested.
She queried why healthcare workers administering the vaccine were advised that it was untested, but the public was told it was safe.
She added that it was further inferred that Pandemrix was as a safe as the ordinary flu vaccine, which had been on the market for 60 years.
Around 100 people are now suing the State over the provision of the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 and 2010.
A test case is already before the High Court and the Health Minister. The HSE and vaccine makers GlaxoSmithKline have already spent millions of euro in defending it.
Sufferers of Unique Narcolepsy Disorder (Sound), a group which represents those affected by the vaccine, stressed that they accept the State acted with the best intentions in 2009 when the World Health Organisation (WHO) warned of an imminent swine flu pandemic.
“We are not anti-vaccine, and it is very important to stress that,” co-founder Tom Matthews said.
Source: Independent.ie https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-...
Informing yourself BEFORE injecting new, barely tested and not long term tested, vaccines, is pro-science: The List of Possible Side Effects To The COVID Vaccine Should Terrify You! https://welovetrump.com/2020/12/29/the-list-of-possible-side-effects-to-the-... … https://www.fda.gov/media/143557/download
participants (4)
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Joshua Case -
Peter Fairbrother -
Zenaan Harkness -
Zig the N.g