It's an Ill Wind

Peter Fairbrother

14 Mar 2020 14 Mar '20

1:29 p.m.

2- It's an Ill Wind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8 So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths. The reason given for this is to develop "herd immunity", where there are so many people who have had the virus that there is nobody for someone who later contracts it to give it to, as everybody has already had it and is immune. But the Chinese didn't do that. They implemented strong containment and stopped the virus dead. They didn't "lessen the peak", they obliterated the peak. There is no reason why we can't do that too. But the Government insists on buying herd immunity at the cost of at least 400,000 (more likely a million [1]) deaths. Why? The question arises, what good would herd immunity, bought at such a terrible cost in deaths, do? The reason given is that the Government believes that COVID-19 will turn into a seasonal disease, and herd immunity might protect us from it's return next year. There are three big problems with that - First, we don't know that it will return at all. Second, if it does return next year, it will have mutated - and like flu, it is likely that the herd immunity, so dearly bought, will not be effective against next year's version, if it happens. There is also concern about people in China who seem to have gotten the disease twice. We don't know why that is, whether it is two different strains of the virus (there are several hundred known varieties of the COVID-19 virus, it mutates fairly rapidly) or people getting the disease twice - however in either case that would lower the usefulness of any herd immunity. So, I don't see why the UK Government are killing 400,000 people. Apparently it isn't because the UK has a large proportion of older people. Older people who need extensive healthcare, expensive pensions, who tie up a lot of wealth and property - of the predicted 400,000 (million) deaths the vast majority would be of older people. This clearing away of unproductive and expensive (and wealthy) older population would more than balance the budget, releasing £10 billion per year in state pensions, £20 billion per year in heathcare costs, and so on. It would stop the disease in the UK fairly quickly, and it would be the cheapest option (ignoring the actuarial but not-real-pounds cost of the deaths). It would release several hundred thousand badly-needed homes (and cause a property price crash; the UK needs about 1 million homes, which is why UK property is so expensive) and would provide a more balanced population pyramid. So for the UK as a nation it would not be a bad thing (ignoring the deaths), and I fear some politicians may think "Hey, it's just the useless oldies, who cares?". But no. There is probably a sensible reason we don't implement strong confinement and stop the virus in its tracks, rather than letting it have its way. Unfortunately I don't know what that reason is. Peter Fairbrother [1] I calculate around a million deaths, but that is a bit of a back-of-the envelope calculation based on known death rates elsewhere and comparative population age spreads. Exact figures also depend on some assumptions about things we do not know about the disease. I have made what I think are reasonable assumptions. I don't know how reasonable the Goverment's assumptions are, or how they came up with the 400,000 figure.

Show replies by date

John Young

14 Mar 14 Mar

2:12 p.m.

Deft analysis. Positive infection salutory to clear out senior royal and political and governmental and military and finance and spies and media and intellectual and celebrities and predators and environmental damagers and drug pushers, allowing angelic ethical fair-minded under-60s to take over the reliquaries in hazmat gear without guillotining, merely shovel the disinfected carcasses into the Thames to be encased in plastic waste and frozen into revived icelands. Until boarded by circumnavigating polar bears with plastic sails sniffing fresh meat down south. At 09:29 AM 3/14/2020, you wrote:

...

2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

The reason given for this is to develop "herd immunity", where there are so many people who have had the virus that there is nobody for someone who later contracts it to give it to, as everybody has already had it and is immune.

But the Chinese didn't do that. They implemented strong containment and stopped the virus dead. They didn't "lessen the peak", they obliterated the peak.

There is no reason why we can't do that too.

But the Government insists on buying herd immunity at the cost of at least 400,000 (more likely a million [1]) deaths. Why?

The question arises, what good would herd immunity, bought at such a terrible cost in deaths, do?

The reason given is that the Government believes that COVID-19 will turn into a seasonal disease, and herd immunity might protect us from it's return next year.

There are three big problems with that - First, we don't know that it will return at all. Second, if it does return next year, it will have mutated - and like flu, it is likely that the herd immunity, so dearly bought, will not be effective against next year's version, if it happens.

There is also concern about people in China who seem to have gotten the disease twice. We don't know why that is, whether it is two different strains of the virus (there are several hundred known varieties of the COVID-19 virus, it mutates fairly rapidly) or people getting the disease twice - however in either case that would lower the usefulness of any herd immunity.

So, I don't see why the UK Government are killing 400,000 people.

Apparently it isn't because the UK has a large proportion of older people. Older people who need extensive healthcare, expensive pensions, who tie up a lot of wealth and property - of the predicted 400,000 (million) deaths the vast majority would be of older people.

This clearing away of unproductive and expensive (and wealthy) older population would more than balance the budget, releasing Â£10 billion per year in state pensions, Â£20 billion per year in heathcare costs, and so on.

It would stop the disease in the UK fairly quickly, and it would be the cheapest option (ignoring the actuarial but not-real-pounds cost of the deaths).

It would release several hundred thousand badly-needed homes (and cause a property price crash; the UK needs about 1 million homes, which is why UK property is so expensive) and would provide a more balanced population pyramid.

So for the UK as a nation it would not be a bad thing (ignoring the deaths), and I fear some politicians may think "Hey, it's just the useless oldies, who cares?".

But no. There is probably a sensible reason we don't implement strong confinement and stop the virus in its tracks, rather than letting it have its way. Unfortunately I don't know what that reason is.

Peter Fairbrother

[1] I calculate around a million deaths, but that is a bit of a back-of-the envelope calculation based on known death rates elsewhere and comparative population age spreads. Exact figures also depend on some assumptions about things we do not know about the disease. I have made what I think are reasonable assumptions. I don't know how reasonable the Goverment's assumptions are, or how they came up with the 400,000 figure.

grarpamp

15 Mar 15 Mar

7:53 a.m.

On 3/14/20, John Young wrote:

...

Deft analysis. Positive infection salutory to clear out senior royal and political and governmental and military and finance and spies and media and intellectual and celebrities and predators and environmental damagers and drug pushers, allowing angelic ethical fair-minded under-60s to take over the reliquaries in hazmat gear without guillotining, merely shovel the disinfected carcasses into the Thames to be encased in plastic waste and frozen into revived icelands. Until boarded by circumnavigating polar bears with plastic sails sniffing fresh meat down south.

Said skew in age distribution of deaths a quite interesting game regarding herd of geriatric population making up overloaded imbalance across most governments. Then the stories of which moles shook who's global hands. Could result in massive wipeouts and unpredictable political change within such bodies. Already started are post-scourge reworking projects to "stress test" and prepare their own assemblies for next one. This bug hardly nasty enough, seemingly not design or ops limited to governments as Anthrax, and govts already sequestered their dastardly bodies in continuance plans, ready to roll out fresh propaganda when Corona clears. Corona2, will it be the maker of wind, an ill flatulence upon the earth.

...

...
2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

Punk-Stasi 2.0

14 Mar 14 Mar

7:56 p.m.

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 13:29:15 +0000 Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

haha - another nutcase - or government agent - spreading flu hysteria hardly surprsing coming from mr fair big brother

\0xDynamite

8:31 p.m.

Corona is a Biblical event. It comes from the crown of Adam himself where he complete the journey of Knowledge. This is what creates the planetary transition to begin with -- an answer to the remaining questions of Mankind that will unite religions and science. I know this because I have these answers myself. The issue is that without Justice for history, there won't be enough lifeforce for the innocent. So.... Conclude as you wish... \0xD

Punk-Stasi 2.0

9:40 p.m.

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 15:31:26 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" wrote:

...

Corona is a Biblical event.

YESSS!!!! That's the perfect conclusion for this fine mailing list, whose content is mostly : 1) technofascist spam - yeah, 'technology' is 'liberating' humanity 2) CIA spam against 'sexual predators' and assange 3) grarpamp SPAM - that's just plain...jewtube link spam - I'd love to know how much jewtube pays for every link the grarpamp bots spams. 4) CIA-KGB spam from zerohedge 5) kkkristian spam against satanic sex cults 6) seasonal flu hysteria spam 7) more random spam Did I miss any piece of valuable spam? Notice that none of the people who post spam actually can argue anything. They just copy-paste copypasta. Yes agent young, your gallant fight against 'sexual predators' will earn you a new CIA medal!

\0xDynamite

10:14 p.m.

...

...
Corona is a Biblical event.

YESSS!!!!

That's the perfect conclusion for this fine mailing list, whose content is mostly :

Did you have an explanation for the failure of the whole world, including yourself, in making it better with all of your freedom? I think not. One of us is trying.

Punk-Stasi 2.0

10:52 p.m.

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 17:14:03 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" wrote:

...

...
...
Corona is a Biblical event.

YESSS!!!!

That's the perfect conclusion for this fine mailing list, whose content is mostly :

Did you have an explanation for the failure of the whole world, including yourself, in making it better with all of your freedom?

what freedom are you talking about, exactly?

...

I think not.

One of us is trying.

Mirimir

11:17 p.m.

On 03/14/2020 03:14 PM, \0xDynamite wrote:

...

...
...
Corona is a Biblical event.

YESSS!!!!

That's the perfect conclusion for this fine mailing list, whose content is mostly :

Did you have an explanation for the failure of the whole world, including yourself, in making it better with all of your freedom?

There's no "failure", unless you're expecting something different. Which, at this point, is arguably unrealistic.

...

I think not.

One of us is trying.

For sure.

Zig the N.g

11:13 p.m.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 06:40:08PM -0300, Punk-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 15:31:26 -0500 "\\0xDynamite" wrote:

...
Corona is a Biblical event.

YESSS!!!!

That's the perfect conclusion for this fine mailing list, whose content is mostly :

1) technofascist spam - yeah, 'technology' is 'liberating' humanity

2) CIA spam against 'sexual predators' and assange

3) grarpamp SPAM - that's just plain...jewtube link spam - I'd love to know how much jewtube pays for every link the grarpamp bots spams.

4) CIA-KGB spam from zerohedge

5) kkkristian spam against satanic sex cults

6) seasonal flu hysteria spam

7) more random spam

Did I miss any piece of valuable spam? Notice that none of the people who post spam actually can argue anything. They just copy-paste copypasta.

Yes agent young, your gallant fight against 'sexual predators' will earn you a new CIA medal!

Headlines: Most List-wide Spam Objections EVER Global Anti-spam outrage at Historic Levels Lack of content in Life leaves Millions depressed - Porn Hub offers Free Premium Subscriptions for a monkh Shocking and Triggering Headlines top Unprecedented Volumes Daily - Logic Itself CRASHES, levels not seen since 1929! Doom and Gloom IMPOSSIBLE to sell without RECORD Satire Inclusions Smiles Withering as Comedy Dies In Darkness .. so sad! Front Running EVERYthing now OUTLAWED, humans to Stay Home Forever (watching free porn on unlimited internet) ;)

Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH

11:28 p.m.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:29 AM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...

2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect" Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them. Kurt

Zig the N.g

11:54 p.m.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 05:28:46PM -0600, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

...

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:29 AM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...
2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

Kurt

<ahem> Skripal hoax <ahem> Did I mention "ahem"? If not, let me be unmistakably clear: "AHEM!", as in "A!" followed by "HEM!" FTFY

Zig the N.g

3 Aug 3 Aug

10 a.m.

New subject: Skripals, Austrians, hoaxes and redemptions -- Re: It's an Ill Wind

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:54:59AM +1100, Zig the N.g wrote:

...

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 05:28:46PM -0600, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

...
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:29 AM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...
2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

Kurt

<ahem> Skripal hoax <ahem>

Did I mention "ahem"? If not, let me be unmistakably clear: "AHEM!", as in "A!" followed by "HEM!"

FTFY

Ahh, the wicked web weavers, wantonly weaving wicked Web Weaver Webs of w.ggardly wicked webs o' bull sheeit! Seems some the brown stuff is finally getting exposed: Austria Confirms OPCW Report On Skripal-Faking By The British, Exposes FT Lies & Cover-Up John Helmer via Dances With Bears blog, http://johnhelmer.net/austria-confirms-opcw-report-on-skripal-faking-by-the-... https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/austria-confirms-opcw-report-skripal-... … The London newspaper appears to have cropped the published picture so as to hide the barcode. That concealment — proof of the Austrian source – allowed the newspaper reporters to claim the source of the document was unknown, probably Russian, as the headline implied: “Wirecard executive Jan Marsalek touted Russian nerve gas documents.” A British military source was reported as claiming “the documents were ‘unlikely’ to have come from OPCW member states in western Europe or the US.” ... So, to our "friendly" MI5 doofuses: Was whatever the hell it was you were trying to achieve with this ridiculous allegation of "RUSSIAN" spys running around London with nerve poison bottles, really worth it? Was it worth the obvious embarrassment that you must have had no doubt would be exposed (as it is now, see just above) sooner or later? And to really slam home British Western dignity, now we have Andrew running around in a bald faced and similarly sad attempt to try sounding like a commoner. Seriously moronic! Now yes, family ralations, stiff upper lip and all, doing what you can for your burdened cousin, brother or whatever - yeah we get it, and yes there is some real dignity in that, but sheesh, could you pull this off any worse? So what's the tab these days on a flood of Westerner's starting to emmigrate to Russia out of sheer embarrassment? If the UK parliament wants to reclaim some real dignity ---in the eyes of the people---, and whilst they're at it give a genuine lift to their own spiritual standing, AND raise the public profile (and similarly, moral standing) of the British Royals whilst they're at it, the simplest and most obvious "low hanging fruit" is to pass the power of pardon clearly and firmly to the Crown in its own right, at least in the case of international matters, so that said crown may dutifully deliberate on this issues at hand and consider the genuine public interest in relation to the matter of the incarceration of Assange and whether this public interest (and the interest of the press, and free speech etc), outweighs any outstanding political interest in keeping Assange incarcerated. And the parliament can be seen to uphold actual and genuine democratic values of a balance of powers, honouring the rightful place of duty which the Crown ought carry in ralation to such complex matters as the Assange case, the public's need to see an ethical/moral reality to their parliament and their royals, dignity in international relations, and no doubt other bits of legal goodness your wigs would come up with. -That's- the kind of win win which could create a strengthening of substance and a lasting relevance to the public's relationship between the various authorities of the Crown, the houses of parliaments, Lords Temporal, and Lords Spiritual etc. If it ain't real, it ain't real. Fundamentally if you want substance behind "looking good", there must actually be some actual substance behind that attempt to raise standing - the public might be less than highly edumacated at times, but they tend to smell bullshit a mile away... ... you know, just in case you failed to notice that part... Remember folks, everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity - some might remember this old saying by some archaic rebel, "do unto others that which you would have them do unto you". It is particularly easy, in a real sense, to take pot shots at any public figure, and sure, some of them do deserve that, but we do not know what is before any particular individual, what they face personally in their public and private lives. They are human (except those emotionless reptillians of course) and if they're anything like other humans, they will here and there experience what other humans experience, like a gf shitting in your bed (OK, that's probably pretty rare, but hey... evidently Johnny Depp failed to train THAT particular shrew ... or "failed to train THAT particular, ah, eew!") Here's praying for a more compassionate world, one which "we the people" can relate to…

Zenaan Harkness

3 Sep 3 Sep

12:15 p.m.

New subject: another round of literal Novichok hoaxing -- Re: Skripals, Austrians, hoaxes and redemptions

As they say, if at first your hoax falls apart, try, try it again. The West hey? How pathetic can it get... Navalny Novichok Poisoning: The (Very Unlikely) Story So Far... https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/navalny-novichok-poisoning-very-unlik... ... - Alexei Navalny has never held any elected office, his political party doesn’t have a single MP in the Duma, and he polls at roughly 2% support with the Russian people. - Despite this, and in the middle of an alleged “pandemic”, Vladimir Putin deems the man a threat and orders him killed. - The State apparatus responsible for unnecessary and seemingly arbitrary acts of political murder decide to use novichok to poison him. - This decision is taken in spite of the facts that a) Novichok totally and utterly failed to work in their alleged murder of the Skripals and b) It has already been widely publicly associated with Russia. - Rather unsurprisingly, the novichok which didn’t kill its alleged target last time, doesn’t kill its alleged target this time either. - Compounding their poor decision making, the Russians not only perform an emergency landing and take Navalny straight to a hospital for medical care. - Despite Navalny being helpless and comatose in a Russian hospital, the powerful state-backed assassination team make no further attempts on his life. - In fact, seemingly determined to under no circumstances successfully kill their intended victim, the Russian government, allow him to leave the country and get medical help from one of the countries which previously accused them of using novichok. - To absolutely no one’s surprise, the Germans claim to have detected novichok in Navalny’s system. - Vladimir Putin and the Russian government are immediately blamed for the attempted murder. ... On and on the bullshit goes, where it stops, nobody knows. I wonder if there's a sportsbook betting tab on whether Navalny was actually poisoned by Novichok? It's an obvious load o' bollox, so I can't imagine anyone taking the "sure it's true, CNN told me!" side of this one... but if you do find such an NPC, it's easy money... On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 08:00:56PM +1000, Zig the N.g wrote:

...

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:54:59AM +1100, Zig the N.g wrote:

...
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 05:28:46PM -0600, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

...
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:29 AM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...
2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

Kurt

<ahem> Skripal hoax <ahem>

Did I mention "ahem"? If not, let me be unmistakably clear: "AHEM!", as in "A!" followed by "HEM!"

FTFY

Ahh, the wicked web weavers, wantonly weaving wicked Web Weaver Webs of w.ggardly wicked webs o' bull sheeit!

Seems some the brown stuff is finally getting exposed:

Austria Confirms OPCW Report On Skripal-Faking By The British, Exposes FT Lies & Cover-Up John Helmer via Dances With Bears blog, http://johnhelmer.net/austria-confirms-opcw-report-on-skripal-faking-by-the-... https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/austria-confirms-opcw-report-skripal-...

… The London newspaper appears to have cropped the published picture so as to hide the barcode. That concealment — proof of the Austrian source – allowed the newspaper reporters to claim the source of the document was unknown, probably Russian, as the headline implied: “Wirecard executive Jan Marsalek touted Russian nerve gas documents.”

A British military source was reported as claiming “the documents were ‘unlikely’ to have come from OPCW member states in western Europe or the US.” ...

So, to our "friendly" MI5 doofuses: Was whatever the hell it was you were trying to achieve with this ridiculous allegation of "RUSSIAN" spys running around London with nerve poison bottles, really worth it? Was it worth the obvious embarrassment that you must have had no doubt would be exposed (as it is now, see just above) sooner or later?

And to really slam home British Western dignity, now we have Andrew running around in a bald faced and similarly sad attempt to try sounding like a commoner.

Seriously moronic!

Now yes, family ralations, stiff upper lip and all, doing what you can for your burdened cousin, brother or whatever - yeah we get it, and yes there is some real dignity in that, but sheesh, could you pull this off any worse?

So what's the tab these days on a flood of Westerner's starting to emmigrate to Russia out of sheer embarrassment?

If the UK parliament wants to reclaim some real dignity ---in the eyes of the people---, and whilst they're at it give a genuine lift to their own spiritual standing, AND raise the public profile (and similarly, moral standing) of the British Royals whilst they're at it, the simplest and most obvious "low hanging fruit" is to pass the power of pardon clearly and firmly to the Crown in its own right, at least in the case of international matters, so that said crown may dutifully deliberate on this issues at hand and consider the genuine public interest in relation to the matter of the incarceration of Assange and whether this public interest (and the interest of the press, and free speech etc), outweighs any outstanding political interest in keeping Assange incarcerated.

And the parliament can be seen to uphold actual and genuine democratic values of a balance of powers, honouring the rightful place of duty which the Crown ought carry in ralation to such complex matters as the Assange case, the public's need to see an ethical/moral reality to their parliament and their royals, dignity in international relations, and no doubt other bits of legal goodness your wigs would come up with.

-That's- the kind of win win which could create a strengthening of substance and a lasting relevance to the public's relationship between the various authorities of the Crown, the houses of parliaments, Lords Temporal, and Lords Spiritual etc.

If it ain't real, it ain't real.

Fundamentally if you want substance behind "looking good", there must actually be some actual substance behind that attempt to raise standing - the public might be less than highly edumacated at times, but they tend to smell bullshit a mile away...

... you know, just in case you failed to notice that part...

Remember folks, everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity - some might remember this old saying by some archaic rebel, "do unto others that which you would have them do unto you". It is particularly easy, in a real sense, to take pot shots at any public figure, and sure, some of them do deserve that, but we do not know what is before any particular individual, what they face personally in their public and private lives. They are human (except those emotionless reptillians of course) and if they're anything like other humans, they will here and there experience what other humans experience, like a gf shitting in your bed (OK, that's probably pretty rare, but hey... evidently Johnny Depp failed to train THAT particular shrew ... or "failed to train THAT particular, ah, eew!")

Here's praying for a more compassionate world, one which "we the people" can relate to…

Peter Fairbrother

15 Mar 15 Mar

2:06 a.m.

On 14/03/2020 23:28, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

...

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:29 AM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...
2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

To my mind it is; "Trying to" is to deliberately do something in order to obtain a desired effect. If the "something" happens to be "nothing", it doesn't change that IMO. Remember those philosophy problems with a train and someone on the track and a set of points? Well to my mind one way is clear and the other way has a million bodies on it, and just because the points are presently set to the million bodies doesn't mean that deliberately choosing not to change the points avoids being responsible for the outcome. Especially when changing the points is your responsibility.

...

Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

But there's more, they won't let others change the points: head teachers want to close schools, but the government is planning to send them to jail if they do. To my mind that pretty much IS the equivalent of chasing down their subjects on the streets with spray bottles of viral concoctions. Maybe I took too much poetic license. But I don't think so. Peter Fairbrother

Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH

2:46 a.m.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 8:06 PM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...

On 14/03/2020 23:28, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

...
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:29 AM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...
2- It's an Ill Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRc389TvG8

So now we know: first, that the UK government is actually deliberately trying to infect over 40 million UK citizens, and in doing so expecting, on their figures, 400,000 deaths.

Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

To my mind it is; "Trying to" is to deliberately do something in order> to obtain a desired effect. If the "something" happens to be "nothing", it doesn't change that IMO.

The limits of an impoverished mind, I suppose, incapable of differentiating between action and inaction.

...

Remember those philosophy problems with a train and someone on the track and a set of points?

Yes, a classical false dilemma.

...

Well to my mind one way is clear and the other way has a million bodies on it, and just because the points are presently set to the million bodies doesn't mean that deliberately choosing not to change the points avoids being responsible for the outcome.

Especially when changing the points is your responsibility.

Ever hear the phrase "Not my monkey, not my circus"? It applies here, or at least it should. The point of government is to prevent crime, not tragedy.

...

...
Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

But there's more, they won't let others change the points: head teachers want to close schools, but the government is planning to send them to jail if they do.

To my mind that pretty much IS the equivalent of chasing down their subjects on the streets with spray bottles of viral concoctions.

Too much government, not enough freedom. Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies.

...

Maybe I took too much poetic license. But I don't think so.

And I do think so. Kurt

Peter Fairbrother

2:55 a.m.

On 15/03/2020 02:46, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote: The point of government is to prevent crime,

...

not tragedy.

There I must disagree. The point of government is precisely to prevent tragedy. As in protection against invasion by foreign hordes, or for that matter viruses. Peter Fairbrother

grarpamp

8:05 a.m.

On 3/14/20, Peter Fairbrother wrote:

...

The point of government is precisely to prevent ... tragedy ... invasion by foreign hordes ... viruses

Track record of history appears to suggest some fair number of both facts and correlations that governments have not only failed at substantively limiting, but consistently participate in, such things. Perhaps quite to the point of them being moot.

Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH

11:04 a.m.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 8:55 PM Peter Fairbrother wrote:

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On 15/03/2020 02:46, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

The point of government is to prevent crime,

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not tragedy.

There I must disagree. The point of government is precisely to prevent tragedy.

As in protection against invasion by foreign hordes, or for that matter viruses.

I slightly misspoke - the mission of government is to prosecute crime, not prevent it, because ultimately prevention is impossible. But here we see the problem with your scope of government - everything unfortunate becomes defined as a tragedy, and therefore legitimizes all government intrusion into the private sphere. War, that is, invasion by a foreign power, is a species of crime. Illness is not. Kurt

grarpamp

8:29 p.m.

On 3/15/20, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

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I slightly misspoke - the mission of government is to prosecute crime

If that were in fact true, then govts would have to prosecuted themselves out of existance, not least of which for some of their own crimes against humanity below. Government rule... #x: Do not prosecute self. #x: Keep inner DNA workings secret against inspect. #x: Protect self at all costs, including in own hardened bunker-spores. #x: Replicate, distribute, mutate. #x: Broadcast FUD pheromones attracting victims into trap. #x: Insert numbing agents allowing proboscis to suck.

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unfortunate becomes defined as a tragedy, and therefore legitimizes all government intrusion into the private sphere.

Yes that is one obvious game govts play. And you suckers keep falling for it time after time.

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War, that is, invasion by a foreign power, is a species of crime.

Their own govt power is, as often and more, and in many ways, in fact the initiating invader. Stop framing your minds away from that fact.

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Illness is not.

Here a lots of illness crimes done by sick government... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

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Indeed yes, but not in this case.

It is exactly the case. Doesn't matter if govts created virus or not. They're still on TV 24x7 leveraging their propaganda game, FUD trolling for your worship, cutting favoritive licenses over free market competition, etc. Govt plays game for itself to some extent in *every* case. Government is standalone competing entity, a virus, one that you should not let win, lest you succumb.

Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH

9 p.m.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 2:30 PM grarpamp wrote:

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On 3/15/20, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

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I slightly misspoke - the mission of government is to prosecute crime

If that were in fact true, then govts would have to prosecuted themselves out of existance, not least of which for some of their own crimes against humanity below.

<snip> You are preaching to the choir.

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unfortunate becomes defined as a tragedy, and therefore legitimizes all government intrusion into the private sphere.

Yes that is one obvious game govts play. And you suckers keep falling for it time after time.

You suckers? You don't include yourself in the psyops game?

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War, that is, invasion by a foreign power, is a species of crime.

Their own govt power is, as often and more, and in many ways, in fact the initiating invader. Stop framing your minds away from that fact.

Again, preaching to the choir.

...

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Illness is not.

Here a lots of illness crimes done by sick government...

<snip> Focus, man, focus. Yes, biowarfare is real, and has been practiced by governments and individuals. In this case, the evidence isn't there, any more than was evidence in 1918.

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Indeed yes, but not in this case.

It is exactly the case. Doesn't matter if govts created virus or not. They're still on TV 24x7 leveraging their propaganda game, FUD trolling for your worship, cutting favoritive licenses over free market competition, etc. Govt plays game for itself to some extent in *every* case.

Let's keep this on target. The US government, at least, did not, and probably the Chinese did not either, absent better evidence, deliberately create the virus or infect anyone. We can take lots of issue with how it's been handled, but we've seen no evidence in this case that the infection is deliberate. Nor do we see, at least in the US (China is up for debate on this point), the government withholding care. Poor planning and execution, yes, and Trump trying to downplay it, yes, and Trump trying to keep proceedings secret, yes, but not much else.

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Government is standalone competing entity, a virus, one that you should not let win, lest you succumb.

I don't know how old you are, but I've been studying and teaching freedom for a long, long time. Don't teach grandpa to suck eggs. Kurt

grarpamp

8:17 a.m.

On 3/14/20, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

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Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

Governments murder people all the time, literally on news every day. Doesn't matter whether it's via spy poison dart umbrella, spraying humancide from a lorry in the streets, carpet bombing the "enemy", shooting sleepy people, stealing and starving them to death, etc. Rest assured, if govt has a gameable angle on plague, they're going to leverage it. History full of game examples.

Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH

11:06 a.m.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 2:18 AM grarpamp wrote:

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On 3/14/20, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

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Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

Governments murder people all the time, literally on news every day. Doesn't matter whether it's via spy poison dart umbrella, spraying humancide from a lorry in the streets, carpet bombing the "enemy", shooting sleepy people, stealing and starving them to death, etc.

Rest assured, if govt has a gameable angle on plague, they're going to leverage it. History full of game examples.

Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH

11:08 a.m.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 2:18 AM grarpamp wrote:

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On 3/14/20, Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH wrote:

...
Uh, no, they're only not quarantining or taking other measures. That is not the same as "trying to infect"

Some of your analysis is OK, but this statement is false. I don't hear of government agents with spray bottles of viral concoctins chasing down their subjects on the streets, or invading their homes, in order to infect them.

Governments murder people all the time, literally on news every day. Doesn't matter whether it's via spy poison dart umbrella, spraying humancide from a lorry in the streets, carpet bombing the "enemy", shooting sleepy people, stealing and starving them to death, etc.

Rest assured, if govt has a gameable angle on plague, they're going to leverage it. History full of game examples.

Indeed yes, but not in this case. Accuracy in speech and thought is the desideratum, and Peter failed to meet it. Kurt

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grarpamp
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Peter Fairbrother
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It's an Ill Wind

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