----- Forwarded message from Zooko O'Whielacronx <zookog@gmail.com> ----- Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 14:12:07 +0000 From: Zooko O'Whielacronx <zookog@gmail.com> To: tahoe-dev <tahoe-dev@tahoe-lafs.org> Subject: [tahoe-dev] reproducible builds for Tahoe-LAFS: where do we start? Folks: Here's some recent news: http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-spy-agencies-mounted-... That article says that the U.S. espionage agencies have surreptitiously installed sophisticated malware on tens of thousands of remote machines, and have plans to increase that number into the millions. It is important to remember that while the U.S. espionage establishment is the one that is currently having its activities and plans exposed, it is not the only one of its kind. It is safe to assume that there are many other organizations with similar capabilities engaged in similar activities. It is also likely that some of those groups are engaged not in warfare but in industrial espionage or other kinds of theft or sabotage. In this modern world, it would be very useful if you could check whether the binaries that you are running are the same as the binaries that other people are running that were ostensibly built from the same source code. That way, implanted malware would be more likely to be exposed. This is the idea of "reproducible builds", as championed by Tor ¹, Bitcoin ², and Debian ³. LWN.net recently had a nice overview article about this: ⁴. Now: how do we start? We have a trac ticket: https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/2057# reproducible builds But I don't understand what the next step on the path to really protecting users. The situation we're considering here is that a user is installing Tahoe-LAFS, for example by running "sudo apt-get install tahoe-lafs" on Debian, and the computer that was used to build the tahoe-lafs Debian package had malware running on it, that inserted a backdoor into the tahoe-lafs Debian package. How can we help users to defend against that? There are lots of other packagers which provide installable versions of Tahoe-LAFS to their users. For example, the "pkgsrc/NetBSD" system ⁵, whose Tahoe-LAFS package is maintained by Greg Troxel, who reads this mailing list. If you click on the big friendly blue "Download Tahoe-LAFS" button on the front page of https://Tahoe-LAFS.org, it takes you to a menu of packages provided by different free-and-open-source operating systems. One thing that worries me about this issue is that it is one of those things were different open source projects can reasonably assume that it is Someone Else's Problem to fix this. I've often seen this: when there is an issue that spans multiple open source projects, that it is hard to make progress on that issue, since every open source project has a theory of how it ought to be fixed by some other open source project taking responsibility for it. So what can we do to push on this issue now? Regards, Zooko ¹ https://blog.torproject.org/blog/deterministic-builds-part-one-cyberwar-and-... ² https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Release_process ³ https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds ⁴ http://lwn.net/Articles/564263/ ⁵ ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/current/pkgsrc/filesystems/tahoe-lafs/README.html _______________________________________________ tahoe-dev mailing list tahoe-dev@tahoe-lafs.org https://tahoe-lafs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tahoe-dev ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://ativel.com http://postbiota.org AC894EC5: 38A5 5F46 A4FF 59B8 336B 47EE F46E 3489 AC89 4EC5