On 10/14/2018 09:07 PM, grarpamp wrote:

Consider utilizing a github / wiki somewhere for this project, People can join together to generate the motivations and goals, outline areas of research, hacking and acquisitions needed, develop workplans, reproducible test setups, progress, results, costs, etc. Perhaps also some form of makerspace later on.

Sounds fun :)

See also... http://www.tscm.com/tscm-l.html

Yes, collective collaboration is good for the success of any project. My inputs, Any power going into such a room should use a UPS battery to prevent data leakage through power lines/usage. (Would power lines become an antennae for electro-magnetic frequency leakage?) Would a UPS be sufficient enough for security? And if network connectivity is needed, to prevent network cables from being a carrier of EMF leakage, perhaps fiber optic line?

Hey Karl, Cool. On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:01 AM Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks so much for your replies.

On 10/14/2018 09:07 PM, grarpamp wrote:

...

Consider utilizing a github / wiki somewhere for this project, People can join together to generate the motivations and goals, outline areas of research, hacking and acquisitions needed, develop workplans, reproducible test setups, progress, results, costs, etc. Perhaps also some form of makerspace later on.

Okay. I made these:

- gitlab wiki: https://gitlab.com/xloem/openemissions/wikis/FAQ-and-Discussion - chat: #openemissions:matrix.org on matrix and #openemissions on freenode - loomio decision-making group: https://www.loomio.org/g/MYQFl2dC/open-emissions

I struggle with organization and would really appreciate any work to make things more organized.

If anybody is interested in collaborating actively on this right now, chat is most convenient for me at the moment.

On 10/14/18, CANNON <cannon@cannon-ciota.info> wrote:

...

Any power going into such a room should use a UPS battery to prevent data leakage through power lines/usage. (Would power lines become an antennae for electro-magnetic frequency leakage?) Would a UPS be sufficient enough for security?

Your use of 'UPS' seems a little ambiguous here. I have been thinking of keeping a 12V battery inside the room, and using only DC power. AC power seems like just another source of emissions to track, to me.

My understanding is that filters are placed on lines to prevent any but acceptable frequencies being carried on them. The field of electromagnetic compatibility covers this a lot, I think. Power lines completely behave as antennae, and couple nearby signals from one end, to the other, by receiving them and then re-radiating them.

Filtered AC power could be plugged straight into the mains, but I don't at this time have the experience to trust the filters, and it complicates construction of the room to make an additional penetration for the wiring.

...

And if network connectivity is needed, to prevent network cables from being a carrier of EMF leakage, perhaps fiber optic line?

As above, I think sneakernet is the way to go for highest security.

With regard to fiberoptic transmissions, it seems to me the gold standard would be open-source transcievers that are shielded to decrease the utility of compromising them, and a way to sniff the fiber-optic line to verify it does not carry unexpected data.

I recently prototyped one of these types of systems, just to prevent EMR between different security domains, using off-the-shelf components; PC <-> Arduino <-> MAX232 <-> Fiber Converter <-> Duplicate (apparently popular for aging SCADA systems, cheaper than BAE Data Diodes - probably just as good.) Unidirectional properties are as easy to confirm as leaving a fiber cable unplugged. Monitoring the fiber itself is probably hard & expensive - but the signal out of the MAX232s at either end, and going in and out of the microcontrollers, is easy to inspect using a cheap PC attached Logic Analyzer (digital domain smuggling between bits) and Oscilloscope (unlikely analog domain covert channels, which Apple has employed for different reasons.) I used DSLogic kit paired w/ their fork of sigrok. All very straightforward. IF a transmitter was modified to analyze or retransmitting important parts of EMR over a covert fiber channel, and the receiver was modified to forward clean RS232 and covertly exfil from the fiber side channel, you won't catch it with this setup. Interested in whether it's more feasible to detect side-channels over fiber or verify the transmitters.

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On 10/14/18, Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:

I worked on this for a while. I was thinking about compartmentalizing services in multiple Raspberry Pi, connected via opto-isolators. Like Markus Ottela's Tinfoil Chat,[0] but expanded to work more like Qubes. And indeed, the Qubes team have announced work on Qubes Air:[1]

| This approach even allows us to host each qube (or groups of them) | on a physically distinct computer, such as a Raspberry PI or USB | Armory. Despite the fact that these are physically separate devices, | the Admin API calls, qrexec services, and even GUI virtualization | should all work seamlessly across these qubes!

But, you know, I wondered about EMF cross-talk between qubes. So I decided to learn how to measure that :)

How far did you end up getting on this?

...

I don't have any formal training and have developed some cognitive issues, resulting in slow progress, but this is all I am spending my free time on. I do not work a job, being supported for now by a trust.

Yeah, me neither. But no trust :(

Maybe we can help each other. Do you have any experience with funding platforms like opencollective.com or something? My trust is small. I'm happy to share as much as it will allow me to, but maybe if we could use something general, donations would eventually come in.

...

I'm currently residing in Green Bank, WV, where emissions are regulated for a radio observatory. I am trying to develop some relatively simple software using the rtl-sdr to measure the power of a noise source independent of background traffic, so as to quickly and repeatedly measure shielding effectiveness.

I tried that approach. And it was a nightmare. The setup -- SDR stick, upconverter and laptop -- generated far too much EMF noise. I played with testing stuff in a Faraday cage. But I didn't manage a signal feed to the SDR etc that didn't introduce unacceptable noise.

My current setup is an oscillating noise source powered by a single-board computer that toggles a relay, turning it on and off at a consistent rate. By averaging the noise level when the source is powered, and averaging the noise level when the source is unpowered, over many thousands of samples, I believe I can determine the power of the emitter without regard to background noise by comparing the statistical distributions of the two sets of samples. I make the assumption that the foreground signal is the arithmetic sum of the generated noise and the background noise. Any thoughts?

I believe that you'd need professional equipment, which is properly shielded, and doesn't bleed noise into the testing environment.

Have you tried or researched any professional equipment to report back? I haven't, at this time.

...

I then plan to try to measure a variety of setups ranging from homemade aluminum foil & iron paint to soldered copper and welded or bolted stainless steel, to identify ways for everyday people to cheaply create shielded environments that are actually effective. I would like to find a way people can use off-the-shelf supplies to make environments that are isolated from DC to light, if desired.

That is also harder that it might seem. For high frequencies, with very small wavelengths, even tiny cracks are enough to leak horribly. You need joints with elastic seals, to mitigate against misalignment and wear. Such as beryllium copper finger strips, elastic beryllium copper tubular braid, etc.

I've looked into that a little. After skimming through some shielding books, I've got the following thoughts: Permanent Seams: - Alu foil can be stapled or tightly taped (see David Weston's paper on aluminum foil rooms) to increase its frequency range. I expect using a wire brush to remove oxidation, and tightly flattening it, would help too. Testing is needed to see if this is worth the effort. - Metal filings can be mixed with paint. This allows for tight sealing, but the conductivity is likely poor. Advantage is that sweepings are available for free. Testing needed. - Metal can be tightly bolted, as is done for modular rooms. The bolts must be frequent and close, to pull microvariations of the metal into each other. - Steel can be welded. This is the gold standard. Welding is not that hard. - Copper can be soldered. This is easier than welding ! Temporary Seams: - Fingerstock is purchasable and not that expensive, but complicated and needs cleaning. - Bolts can be temporary, to bolt a door on as modular walls are bolted together. It's laborious, but it's workable and cheap and doesn't require mail-order. A robot could tighten and loosen them. Testing needed. - A door could perhaps be given pressure that does not penetrate it, to keep a tight seal, perhaps via an automatic mechanism. Cleaning will be needed. Testing too. - A copper door could be actually soldered closed, and then desoldered to open it. A robotic door could automatically do this. Very tight. Research needed. My understanding is that high frequencies are attenuated mostly by reflection. Hence I'd expect these tight seals to be needed mostly for very thin, highly conductive material, which could keep costs down if true. Karl