Re: [tor-talk] REAL-ID Internet Access Coming Soon
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Yuri <yuri@rawbw.com> wrote:
On 02/11/2015 13:17, goofyzrnssm@vfemail.net wrote:
If a `REAL-ID Internet Access' law were to gain traction in the U.S., how would such a law be enforced exactly?
Use your imagination.
Real ID enforcement would violate people's anonymity rights, which are very well protected in US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymity#United_States).
We're not talking about books and soapboxing today, class. We're talking about "papers please" being required for everything you do. Including, among other things, your internet access at home, mobile, in the library, coffee shop and so on. Today you can somewhat preserve your right to be anonymous and bigdata free, by manipulating inputs to some of these things. If you haven't noticed, that's become steadily harder over time.
So there is no chance of this happening in US.
Hah! That's what you think. Pending some games in the Supreme Court (if there are any brave souls left), it's already done... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act
The OP was primarily concerned about other countries.
No. China and Facebook were referenced as two that were already doing a semantic equivalent of REAL-ID for certain usage contexts of the internet. And it was described what will happen if you don't act. (If you know anything about history, it should be clear that that applies to all places on the planet, and that failure to act gets you what they want, not what you want.) You can add Russia to the list now too... http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/02/11/2245240/russia-seeking-to-ban-tor-vpn...
Dnia czwartek, 12 lutego 2015 02:35:03 grarpamp pisze:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Yuri <yuri@rawbw.com> wrote:
On 02/11/2015 13:17, goofyzrnssm@vfemail.net wrote:
If a `REAL-ID Internet Access' law were to gain traction in the U.S., how would such a law be enforced exactly?
Use your imagination.
Real ID enforcement would violate people's anonymity rights, which are very well protected in US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymity#United_States).
We're not talking about books and soapboxing today, class.
Exactly. And remember that mainstream public and politicians see Teh Intertubes as "something completely different", a "virtual reality" in which laws and regulations do not apply. This includes any local constitution. Example: if you had people on post offices opening and reading all mail, people would revolt; you already have people reading your e-mail, and the public goes "that's bad, but meh". People don't see Internet as a tool, which it is. They see it as a new "domain", new "frontier", in which laws must only be created and human rights protections do not apply. That's why I find any "Internet Bills of Rights" as counter-productive. They promulgate this divided vision and while some might to some extent solve part of the problems with the Internet, come new communications technology and we have the very same problem. Instead of "Internet Bills of Rights" we need to make people and politicians understand that *the* Bill of Rights already pertains to the Internet. But I digress. tl;dr politicians and the general public don't see the anonymity thing the way you do, the Internet is this scary place full of trolls and "cyberhackers" that can take down the electric grid on a whim, and the only thing that can stop them is identifying every connection. For your security! -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
On Wed, 11 Feb 2015 23:35:03 -0800, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
We're not talking about books and soapboxing today, class. We're talking about "papers please" being required for everything you do. Including, among other things, your internet access at home, mobile, in the library, coffee shop and so on.
If the current trend of requiring govt slave papers for everything continues apace I don't think this statement can be dismissed as alarmist. Look at the inroads the control grid has made in the past 20 years, 40 year and over olds being carded to enter any place serving alcohol or buy a goddamn beer, 'ID' to get on a plane, (now includes intercity buses and trains), SSNs (Slave Surveillance Numbers) practically mandatory to obtain a drivers license or open a bank account, license plate readers everywhere, small planes flying overhead slurping and mapping yer wifi device IDs, it would take me all night just to list all the new surveillance bullshit we've been assaulted with during this time frame.
Today you can somewhat preserve your right to be anonymous and bigdata free, by manipulating inputs to some of these things. If you haven't noticed, that's become steadily harder over time.
I imagine 'they' are going to have to criminalize unlicensed encryption, wireless/SDR etc to really nail you down, but after a few well targeted 'dem dere terrists wuz fixin' on using X <demonized technology> to kill muhricans!' psychological warfare ops everyone seeking privacy will be the subject of a vicious witch hunt, after which just insert the well worn script of a rabid public foaming at the mouth and hell bent on revenge, just like after 9/11, the war drums will start beating again, people rounded up, nobody has learned a fucking thing. Clueless hordes of deranged television-addled submitizen jackasses will be wildly cheering it all on, maniacally deep-throating the big cock of the corporate media government propaganda war machine, begging for a yet another massive load of disease ridden yellow journalism, eyes bulging with out-of-body-experience ecstasy during climax as they hungrily gulp down each injection of toxic lies, licking the shaft hungrily for every last drop, eager for more, looking for the next scapegoat to project their own pathological insecurities and fears onto.
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Seth