request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
Hi cp-ers, On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general@postgresql.org , they are discussing a Code of Conduct. A reference and discussion came up around contributor-covenant.org and it seems many (allegedly 1000's of "open source projects" have "adopted" it, and there appears to quite the campaign to "encourage" the PostgreSQL project to likewise adopt that particular agreement. The pgsql old hands appear to have rejected it. This is a rare thing AFAICT. There are a few issues raised about the so-called "contributor covenant" which have very clearly, and repeatedly, not been responded to, and this has been pointed out, more than once. Those who chaperone one or more "open source" project mailing lists may wish to bring themselves up to speed with this so-called "covenant" before the steamroller hits your group/ list/ community, since it seems inevitable at this point. Being riveted and enraptured by concepts of "enforcement", "protection" of "the marginalized peoples" and as y'all know, my raving crusade to further promote "political correctness", I figured I should go and read this "covenant" to find out what all the fuss might be about and add some scare quotes at appropriate places. So I went and read it. It simply, abso-firetruckingly, demands a response, and beyond what appears to have currently been tippy toe on eggshells burped out so far. Here is my first draft to respond to it, I encourage others to refine my oh-so-subtle analysis, but most importantly to bring yourself up to speed with the PC-speak which might freight train into one or more of your "open source" worlds in the relatively near future; informed ahead of time may be enough to be armed against long and actually divisive email discussions, as internet searching sadly tells. The below is my second woeful attempt to bring some sanity to that "covenant". It needs your improvements. Good luck, Zenaan ---- http://contributor-covenant.org/
Contributor Covenant A Code of Conduct for Open Source Projects.
Sounds reasonable.
Open Source has always been a foundation of the Internet, and with the advent of social open source networks this is more true than ever.
Let's hope free libre and open source software - FLOSS, stays as the foundation of the Internet! "social open source networks" - what?? Facebook social network?? Use of new terminology, without explaining that terminology, and presuming it is known and well understood terminology, in a document you are pushing as a new and additional "social contract" which others are pressed upon to adopt and enforce, is IMHO passive aggressive.
But free, libre, and open source projects suffer from a startling lack of diversity, with dramatically low participation by women, people of color, and other marginalized populations.
Those who have an interest in promoting, assisting, sponsoring and generally facilitating "the diversity" within this particular libre software project or mailing list, are welcome to do so and in general, ought be supported to the extent that their actions and words are neither actively nor passively aggressive towards any member of this mailing list, and are actually supportive of the technical goals of this project.
Part of this problem
Lack of diversity may be viewed as a problem. Such a viewpoint is a personal, individual matter. Your personal, individual opinion on this matter may be discussed, but in general is off topic for this mailing list. Speaking or writing that "lack of diversity is a problem", and even moreso, building the presumption into the words of a so-called "social covenant", where that presumption is almost hidden and "not up for debate", is a passive aggressive approach to communication with others who may or may not disagree with this position. Passive aggressive communication is not welcome on this mailing list.
lies with the very structure of some projects:
What is "the very structure of a project"? This phrase is too generic, and not explained, despite the next part of that sentence which follows below, which appears to pretend to answer (or define) the phrase - it does not. Phrases and terminologies used out of context and having indefinite and vague meanings, is a sign of passive aggressive communication and all members of this mailing list are encourage to ridicule such communication.
the use of insensitive language, thoughtless use of pronouns, assumptions of gender, and even sexualized or culturally insensitive names.
Although certain social niceties are encouraged on this mailing list, they are not required and indeed firm, clear and precise languaging is valued and encouraged. If you are overly sensitive, or in need (or desire) of an emotionally sensitive environment, then consider another mailing list - this mailing list is likely not for you, and if you are in need of any professional help, you are encouraged and indeed required to seek professional medical and or psychological advice and or support.
Marginalized people also suffer some of the unintended consequences of dogmatic insistence on meritocratic principles of governance.
There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally sensitive environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of technology discussed on this mailing list. In all of these cases, this mailing list is not for you, and you will be encouraged to leave if we discover that any of these conditions apply to you. Take note, we heartily welcome the opportunity to joust against your best attempts to otherwise deceive us in regards to such conditions applying to you, although in general in such cases, please expect derision and ridicule for wasting our time in such circumstances.
Studies have shown that organizational cultures that value meritocracy often result in greater inequality.
This is a baseless assertion. Provide the references or go away. Such an unsupported, unreferenced and 'plastic' attempt to dominate our community into conforming, acting and behaving according to your standards is unwelcome in the extreme, and grounds for the ridicule of you. In any case, this mailing list is for those who have a minimum intermediate skill and understanding in the programming languages and technologies for which it has been established, and is explicitly not for those who are overly sensitive and need an emotionally supportive environment - we might have a laugh, and it may be at your expense, so if you can't laugh at yourself, this mailing list is definitely not for you.
People with "merit" are often excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions.
You may join this mailing list, but by doing so you agree to speak clearly and assertively if you feel offended, or otherwise to respectfully leave the mailing list, as it is unmoderated and uncensored, although discussion is generally sought to be on topic, and for offtopic digressions to be kept short and taken offlist or to an alternate list if they persist. Additionally, your consideration that this mailing list is a public space, is only partially correct. This mailing list is a list which is open to conditional membership, and the list administrator reserves the right to ban you temporarily and or permanently at any time, but with prior notice and opportunity for discussion given on this mailing list. Take Notice further that the discussions had by members of this mailing list are archived publicly, so to this extent the list may be considered public, whilst it is strictly a members only mailing list who choose to have certain public discussions, which may include attempting to ridicule -you-, so obtain a temporary membership to this email mailing list only after very careful consideration by you. If you are at all unsure of your suitability to our list, we are happy to help you decide by analysing your proposed introduction email of yourself.
Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field, in which everyone has access to the same resources, free time, and common life experiences to draw upon.
The sentence above is another passive-aggressive, presumption filled projected assertion. Such communication has no place on this mailing list, except as the target of naming the presumptions, highlighting the passive aggressive nature and generally tearing it to shreads and providing an opportunity for the mailing list members to laugh like hyenas. - >> "Meritocracy naively assumes" Meritocracy does no such thing - it is not a person. - >> "Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field," Meritocracy does no such thing - in fact it is the opposite - meritocracy is a socio political agreement, contract and or requirement that participants in the system shall be judged based on their technical merit and or performance. In our case, slow performance is entirely acceptable, you are under no requirement nor expectation to make contributions according to any schedule, only on your own free time and personal pleasure. Making any assertion to the contrary is passive aggressive, manipulative, and shall be joyously and most light heartedly attacked in words. - >> "in which everyone has access to the same resources, free time," No such assumptions are made on this mailing list, and quite the contrary - if you have very little free time for example, or a slow computer, then we will certainly expect that your contributions may be few and far between as compared with someone who has loads of free time or a faster computer than you. If you are experiencing free time and resources problems, then this list is DEFINITELY not the place for you - you are explicitly instructed to seek professional time management advice as well as professional financial counselling. DO NOT bring such personal problems to this mailing list, as they will be used as instant grounds for removal and for barring from the list, although more likely simply as grounds for ridicule and laughing like hyenas. - >> "and common life experiences to draw upon." Once again, "meritocracy" (to the extent we can personify a socio political system), and "we" the members of this mailing list in particular, make no such assumptions whatsoever, and we more importantly, put no such requirements upon you. So sleep tight, it's all alright, we won't hold your differing life experiences against you, in fact we may be intrigued, but if a particular experience you share starts to cause an extended off topic discussion, take notice that we reserve the right to calmly let you know this so that we can get back to the topics intended for this mailing list. This list may be a platform, but at most only for those robust enough to hold their own on the topic they make a post about. If you join this mailing list, you are strongly encouraged to communicate your personal concerns and problems, needs and requirements at the earliest stage possible, preferably in in your introduction email with a well identified subject line. Then we will be able to readily assess whether this mailing list is suitable for you or whether you need to find another, more appropriate environment in which to express yourself and or to find a "contribution space" which is suitable for your needs. If you are unsure, then you are welcome to introduce yourself in this way, and we will respectfully assess your suitability to the mailing list as best we can. Take notice that we are not professionals in any field, indeed we are amateurs that might be in your personal medical or other interests to NOT associate with, and that if you require any professional advice, medical or otherwise, then you are required to seek such advice from suitably certificated professionals in your area - we on this mailing list cannot help you in such circumstances and if you fail to inform us of any such problems and or issues you may have that you consider we would otherwise be responsible for, then you may be in breech of the legislation in your jurisdiction - deceive the members of this mailing list at your own legal liability. On this mailing list, robust communication is a prime valued contribution - if you are actively wanting to improve your emotional robustness, this mailing list could possibly be a suitable place for you - feel free to ask us about this specifically in relation to you.
These factors and more make contributing to open source a daunting prospect for many people,
If your emotional strength, your social and or communication capacity, and or your psychological needs are an issue in any way, you are not welcome on this mailing list and we require you to seek professional medical advice.
especially women and other underrepresented people. (For more critical analysis of meritocracy, refer to this entry on the Geek Feminism wiki.)
If you have any trigger words, emotional weaknesses and or sensitivities which may cause you to have any reaction whatsoever, you are required to inform the members of this mailing list in an introduction email if you do join the list, and if you are required to do so, you must seek professional medical and or psychological advice and support - this mailing list is most likely an inappropriate place for you to join, and we continue to encourage ourselves to not hold back in reminding you this.
A Small Step Forward An easy way to begin addressing this problem
You may have some problem, and this mailing list not the place for you to fix your problem. Only technical matters related to the technical topic of this mailing list are appropriate problems for fixing in discussions on this mailing list. Seek professional advice when you need it, including professional advice regarding the technical topic of this mailing list if that is what you require - this mailing list is for non professionals with at least moderate technical competence, all members are volunteers, all members participate at their own discretion and with no obligations upon them and with no obligations whatsoever to you, including courtesy which is valued, but not required - enter at your own risk.
is to be overt in our openness, welcoming all people to contribute, and pledging in return to value them as human beings and to foster an atmosphere of kindness, cooperation, and understanding.
This we agree with - we, the members of this mailing list, proclaim our intention to welcome all people to contribute, and to value each member as a human being. We encourage each other to foster an atmosphere of kindness, cooperation and understanding, and robustness in communication - passive aggressive communication, despite the best intentions of the one making such passive aggressive communication, has no place in our community. And take notice - persistent bad behaviour, 'bad' by the assessment of the members alone and discussed publicly on this mailing list, shall be cause for temporary and or permanent banning from this mailing list.
The Contributor Covenant can be one way to express these values. Pledge your respect and appreciation for contributors and participants in your open source project by adding an explicit CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md to your project repository.
Respect, kindness and cooperation are good things, but this "http://contributor-covenant.org/" "contributor covenant" to which we hereby respond, is in no way or shape getting into our project's repository without this our response.
The Contributor Covenant uses semantic versioning for revisions so all URLs are permanent. Previous versions are available here: 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2
Using the Contributor Covenant
We recommend that you add the Markdown or text version of the Contributor Covenant to your source code repository at the root level.
Thanks to Simon Vansintjan there is an automated way to add Contributor Covenant to your project. Assuming that you have node installed, simply run the following two commands from your project folder:
npm install -g covgen covgen your_email_address
You may want to add language similar to this to introduce your code of conduct:
Please note that this project is released with a Contributor Code of Conduct. By participating in this project you agree to abide by its terms.
You may also use the permalinks given above to reference from your project home page.
Important! You must add a contact method to the placeholder in the document so that people know how to report violations. Enforcing the Contributor Covenant
This above paragraph does not quite feel right. If the members of this mailing list are so anti-social that genuine "social problems" cannot be resolved on the mailing list itself, then this "community" of members is quite likely beyond repair without substantial work by robust individuals with a passion to heal the community - if you are not such an individual, then you best leave that job to comeone who is, and take yourself to a kinder, gentler happy place.
Do not simply add the Contributor Covenant to your project and assume that any problems with civility, harassment, or discrimination will be solved. As a project maintainer you must be committed to enforcing the code of conduct.
There may be a time and place for banning members from this mailing list, temporarily and or permanently, but such discussions shall continue to be public, on the mailing list itself and open to discussion and contribution by all members. No duty is incumbent upon any member, including the "project maintainer" - if the community can't work out its problems, it is unfair to place such a burden upon such a one individual.
A code of conduct without enforcement sends a false signal that your project is welcoming and inclusive, and can create a dangerous situation for marginalized people who participate.
"Marginalized people" who are not competent to contribute on some technical level (which includes documentation writing, testing as well as programming), are not welcome - we the members of this mailing list are volunteers and, on this particular mailing list, are not willing to tutor those who have special needs - do not join the mailing list in such circumstances, there are other, appropriate forums, mailing lists and learning institutions which you ought apply to. Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing list - we shall roast you in words, with glee!
Adding the Contributor Covenant to a project places responsibility on the project team that must not be taken lightly.
Since the archives of this mailing list are public, should you have even the smallest concern regarding your own robustness in public communication, then you are invited to browse those archives and make an assessment as to whether you are a suitable candidate to join this mailing list. If you do decide to join, you are required to make your first email an introduction, which introduction includes a reference to your assessment of the archives as well as any needs you feel that the members of this list ought be able to meet.
Before adopting the Contributor Covenant take the time to discuss and decide how to deal with problems as they emerge. Document the policy and procedure
Oh, we've taken the time, and "problems as they emerge" shall be handled publicly, on this mailing list! To the extent we the members of this maliing list consider you a problem, passive aggressive or otherwise, we WILL handle you, publicly, with the one caveat that all members are in general expected to show respectful consideration in respect of all private or "off-list" communications. If you are uncomfortable with this policy, you are encouraged to find a more suitable community to join.
for enforcement, and add it to your README or in another visible, appropriate place. Consider if your project team has the willingness and maturity to follow through on your enforcement procedures.
A "community" that requires any significant policing, particularly clandestine policing, has lost its way - the tyranny of the majority is not the healthiest way, in the opinion of some members - speak clearly, speak the truth, and seek a fair response; if you don't receive a fair response, another community might be much less work for you, even if it provides less opportunities for emotional growth for you.
On Codes on Conduct Allan MacGregor 1 day ago https://medium.com/@allanmacgregor/on-codes-on-conduct-37f3247b5e49 Recently, there has been a lot of controversy and discussion surrounding the adoption of a code of conduct for the PHP project; there has been endless back and forth between proponents and opponents of the motion. I’ve debated if I should publish my opinions on the subject or simply remain quite and hope for the best; however as emails from the internals list continued to flood my inbox, I found it harder and harder to just sit idly silent. The following article(s) are heavily opinionated and there is a very good chance that you will disagree with my position and my arguments, the topic by is very nature is extremely contentious and of a sensitive nature. However, they say that disagreement fosters communication and the exchange of ideas; and I’m hoping that is true in this case. With that said, let’s jump into the topic at hand and start talking about code of conduct. [...] Unfortunately, as most things in the real world it is not as simple as it sounds and we need to at least be aware of the consequences, side effects, and political baggage documents like a code of conduct can have. Let’s start by taking a closer look to the Code of Conduct original proposed for the PHP project: contributor-covenant.org [...] If we are truly talking about creating a welcoming and open community, then we need to listen and address the concerns of detractors as much as we do for the proponents of the CoC; after all, the goal is equality and fairness; is it not? Even without accounting for this scenario, getting banned from contribution under the accusation of misconduct could cause problems in the real world and their work; you could get you banned from conferences, affect publishing deals, in short, it could royally mess up with your career. As it stands, the current proposal for the Code of Conduct has hit an impasse; the more the discussion seems to go on, the more it seems that the proposal is attempting to setup a mini-judicial system; and speaking candidly, the PHP community is not capable of pulling this off. [...]
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 01:55:29AM +0100, mo wrote:
https://medium.com/@allanmacgregor/on-codes-on-conduct-37f3247b5e49
I suppose this list haven't signed any of these, especially this nonsense: === Examples of unacceptable behaviour by participants include: The use of sexualized language or imagery Personal attacks Trolling or insulting/derogatory comments Other unethical or unprofessional conduct === Shellshock and Heartbleed were very "professional" conduct, have the implementors signed the agreements?
I'm sure there's a good joke in here, about the temperament of those folks who desire to force their CoC down the throats of the many who do not want it. Alas I'm not clever enough to come up with quite the right wording. On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
Hi cp-ers,
On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general@postgresql.org , they are discussing a Code of Conduct.
A reference and discussion came up around contributor-covenant.org and it seems many (allegedly 1000's of "open source projects" have "adopted" it, and there appears to quite the campaign to "encourage" the PostgreSQL project to likewise adopt that particular agreement.
The pgsql old hands appear to have rejected it. This is a rare thing AFAICT. There are a few issues raised about the so-called "contributor covenant" which have very clearly, and repeatedly, not been responded to, and this has been pointed out, more than once.
Those who chaperone one or more "open source" project mailing lists may wish to bring themselves up to speed with this so-called "covenant" before the steamroller hits your group/ list/ community, since it seems inevitable at this point.
Being riveted and enraptured by concepts of "enforcement", "protection" of "the marginalized peoples" and as y'all know, my raving crusade to further promote "political correctness", I figured I should go and read this "covenant" to find out what all the fuss might be about and add some scare quotes at appropriate places.
So I went and read it.
It simply, abso-firetruckingly, demands a response, and beyond what appears to have currently been tippy toe on eggshells burped out so far.
Here is my first draft to respond to it, I encourage others to refine my oh-so-subtle analysis, but most importantly to bring yourself up to speed with the PC-speak which might freight train into one or more of your "open source" worlds in the relatively near future; informed ahead of time may be enough to be armed against long and actually divisive email discussions, as internet searching sadly tells.
The below is my second woeful attempt to bring some sanity to that "covenant". It needs your improvements.
Good luck, Zenaan
---- http://contributor-covenant.org/
Contributor Covenant A Code of Conduct for Open Source Projects.
Sounds reasonable.
Open Source has always been a foundation of the Internet, and with the advent of social open source networks this is more true than ever.
Let's hope free libre and open source software - FLOSS, stays as the foundation of the Internet!
"social open source networks" - what?? Facebook social network??
Use of new terminology, without explaining that terminology, and presuming it is known and well understood terminology, in a document you are pushing as a new and additional "social contract" which others are pressed upon to adopt and enforce, is IMHO passive aggressive.
But free, libre, and open source projects suffer from a startling lack of diversity, with dramatically low participation by women, people of
color, and >> other marginalized populations.
Those who have an interest in promoting, assisting, sponsoring and generally facilitating "the diversity" within this particular libre software project or mailing list, are welcome to do so and in general, ought be supported to the extent that their actions and words are neither actively nor passively aggressive towards any member of this mailing list, and are actually supportive of the technical goals of this project.
Part of this problem
Lack of diversity may be viewed as a problem.
Such a viewpoint is a personal, individual matter. Your personal, individual opinion on this matter may be discussed, but in general is off topic for this mailing list.
Speaking or writing that "lack of diversity is a problem", and even moreso, building the presumption into the words of a so-called "social covenant", where that presumption is almost hidden and "not up for debate", is a passive aggressive approach to communication with others who may or may not disagree with this position.
Passive aggressive communication is not welcome on this mailing list.
lies with the very structure of some projects:
What is "the very structure of a project"? This phrase is too generic, and not explained, despite the next part of that sentence which follows below, which appears to pretend to answer (or define) the phrase - it does not.
Phrases and terminologies used out of context and having indefinite and vague meanings, is a sign of passive aggressive communication and all members of this mailing list are encourage to ridicule such communication.
the use of insensitive language, thoughtless use of pronouns, assumptions of gender, and even sexualized or culturally insensitive names.
Although certain social niceties are encouraged on this mailing list, they are not required and indeed firm, clear and precise languaging is valued and encouraged.
If you are overly sensitive, or in need (or desire) of an emotionally sensitive environment, then consider another mailing list - this mailing list is likely not for you, and if you are in need of any professional help, you are encouraged and indeed required to seek professional medical and or psychological advice and or support.
Marginalized people also suffer some of the unintended consequences of dogmatic insistence on meritocratic principles of governance.
There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally sensitive environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of technology discussed on this mailing list.
In all of these cases, this mailing list is not for you, and you will be encouraged to leave if we discover that any of these conditions apply to you.
Take note, we heartily welcome the opportunity to joust against your best attempts to otherwise deceive us in regards to such conditions applying to you, although in general in such cases, please expect derision and ridicule for wasting our time in such circumstances.
Studies have shown that organizational cultures that value meritocracy often result in greater inequality.
This is a baseless assertion. Provide the references or go away. Such an unsupported, unreferenced and 'plastic' attempt to dominate our community into conforming, acting and behaving according to your standards is unwelcome in the extreme, and grounds for the ridicule of you.
In any case, this mailing list is for those who have a minimum intermediate skill and understanding in the programming languages and technologies for which it has been established, and is explicitly not for those who are overly sensitive and need an emotionally supportive environment - we might have a laugh, and it may be at your expense, so if you can't laugh at yourself, this mailing list is definitely not for you.
People with "merit" are often excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions.
You may join this mailing list, but by doing so you agree to speak clearly and assertively if you feel offended, or otherwise to respectfully leave the mailing list, as it is unmoderated and uncensored, although discussion is generally sought to be on topic, and for offtopic digressions to be kept short and taken offlist or to an alternate list if they persist.
Additionally, your consideration that this mailing list is a public space, is only partially correct. This mailing list is a list which is open to conditional membership, and the list administrator reserves the right to ban you temporarily and or permanently at any time, but with prior notice and opportunity for discussion given on this mailing list.
Take Notice further that the discussions had by members of this mailing list are archived publicly, so to this extent the list may be considered public, whilst it is strictly a members only mailing list who choose to have certain public discussions, which may include attempting to ridicule -you-, so obtain a temporary membership to this email mailing list only after very careful consideration by you. If you are at all unsure of your suitability to our list, we are happy to help you decide by analysing your proposed introduction email of yourself.
Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field, in which everyone has access to the same resources, free time, and common life experiences to draw upon.
The sentence above is another passive-aggressive, presumption filled projected assertion.
Such communication has no place on this mailing list, except as the target of naming the presumptions, highlighting the passive aggressive nature and generally tearing it to shreads and providing an opportunity for the mailing list members to laugh like hyenas.
- >> "Meritocracy naively assumes"
Meritocracy does no such thing - it is not a person.
- >> "Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field,"
Meritocracy does no such thing - in fact it is the opposite - meritocracy is a socio political agreement, contract and or requirement that participants in the system shall be judged based on their technical merit and or performance. In our case, slow performance is entirely acceptable, you are under no requirement nor expectation to make contributions according to any schedule, only on your own free time and personal pleasure.
Making any assertion to the contrary is passive aggressive, manipulative, and shall be joyously and most light heartedly attacked in words.
- >> "in which everyone has access to the same resources, free time,"
No such assumptions are made on this mailing list, and quite the contrary - if you have very little free time for example, or a slow computer, then we will certainly expect that your contributions may be few and far between as compared with someone who has loads of free time or a faster computer than you.
If you are experiencing free time and resources problems, then this list is DEFINITELY not the place for you - you are explicitly instructed to seek professional time management advice as well as professional financial counselling. DO NOT bring such personal problems to this mailing list, as they will be used as instant grounds for removal and for barring from the list, although more likely simply as grounds for ridicule and laughing like hyenas.
- >> "and common life experiences to draw upon."
Once again, "meritocracy" (to the extent we can personify a socio political system), and "we" the members of this mailing list in particular, make no such assumptions whatsoever, and we more importantly, put no such requirements upon you.
So sleep tight, it's all alright, we won't hold your differing life experiences against you, in fact we may be intrigued, but if a particular experience you share starts to cause an extended off topic discussion, take notice that we reserve the right to calmly let you know this so that we can get back to the topics intended for this mailing list.
This list may be a platform, but at most only for those robust enough to hold their own on the topic they make a post about.
If you join this mailing list, you are strongly encouraged to communicate your personal concerns and problems, needs and requirements at the earliest stage possible, preferably in in your introduction email with a well identified subject line.
Then we will be able to readily assess whether this mailing list is suitable for you or whether you need to find another, more appropriate environment in which to express yourself and or to find a "contribution space" which is suitable for your needs.
If you are unsure, then you are welcome to introduce yourself in this way, and we will respectfully assess your suitability to the mailing list as best we can.
Take notice that we are not professionals in any field, indeed we are amateurs that might be in your personal medical or other interests to NOT associate with, and that if you require any professional advice, medical or otherwise, then you are required to seek such advice from suitably certificated professionals in your area - we on this mailing list cannot help you in such circumstances and if you fail to inform us of any such problems and or issues you may have that you consider we would otherwise be responsible for, then you may be in breech of the legislation in your jurisdiction - deceive the members of this mailing list at your own legal liability.
On this mailing list, robust communication is a prime valued contribution - if you are actively wanting to improve your emotional robustness, this mailing list could possibly be a suitable place for you - feel free to ask us about this specifically in relation to you.
These factors and more make contributing to open source a daunting prospect for many people,
If your emotional strength, your social and or communication capacity, and or your psychological needs are an issue in any way, you are not welcome on this mailing list and we require you to seek professional medical advice.
especially women and other underrepresented people. (For more critical analysis of meritocracy, refer to this entry on the Geek Feminism wiki.)
If you have any trigger words, emotional weaknesses and or sensitivities which may cause you to have any reaction whatsoever, you are required to inform the members of this mailing list in an introduction email if you do join the list, and if you are required to do so, you must seek professional medical and or psychological advice and support - this mailing list is most likely an inappropriate place for you to join, and we continue to encourage ourselves to not hold back in reminding you this.
A Small Step Forward An easy way to begin addressing this problem
You may have some problem, and this mailing list not the place for you to fix your problem. Only technical matters related to the technical topic of this mailing list are appropriate problems for fixing in discussions on this mailing list.
Seek professional advice when you need it, including professional advice regarding the technical topic of this mailing list if that is what you require - this mailing list is for non professionals with at least moderate technical competence, all members are volunteers, all members participate at their own discretion and with no obligations upon them and with no obligations whatsoever to you, including courtesy which is valued, but not required - enter at your own risk.
is to be overt in our openness, welcoming all people to contribute, and pledging in return to value them as human beings and to foster an atmosphere of kindness, cooperation, and understanding.
This we agree with - we, the members of this mailing list, proclaim our intention to welcome all people to contribute, and to value each member as a human being. We encourage each other to foster an atmosphere of kindness, cooperation and understanding, and robustness in communication - passive aggressive communication, despite the best intentions of the one making such passive aggressive communication, has no place in our community.
And take notice - persistent bad behaviour, 'bad' by the assessment of the members alone and discussed publicly on this mailing list, shall be cause for temporary and or permanent banning from this mailing list.
The Contributor Covenant can be one way to express these values. Pledge your respect and appreciation for contributors and participants in your open source project by adding an explicit CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md to your project repository.
Respect, kindness and cooperation are good things, but this "http://contributor-covenant.org/" "contributor covenant" to which we hereby respond, is in no way or shape getting into our project's repository without this our response.
The Contributor Covenant uses semantic versioning for revisions so all URLs are permanent. Previous versions are available here: 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2
Using the Contributor Covenant
We recommend that you add the Markdown or text version of the Contributor Covenant to your source code repository at the root level.
Thanks to Simon Vansintjan there is an automated way to add Contributor Covenant to your project. Assuming that you have node installed, simply run the following two commands from your project folder:
npm install -g covgen covgen your_email_address
You may want to add language similar to this to introduce your code of conduct:
Please note that this project is released with a Contributor Code of Conduct. By participating in this project you agree to abide by its terms.
You may also use the permalinks given above to reference from your project home page.
Important! You must add a contact method to the placeholder in the document so that people know how to report violations. Enforcing the Contributor Covenant
This above paragraph does not quite feel right. If the members of this mailing list are so anti-social that genuine "social problems" cannot be resolved on the mailing list itself, then this "community" of members is quite likely beyond repair without substantial work by robust individuals with a passion to heal the community - if you are not such an individual, then you best leave that job to comeone who is, and take yourself to a kinder, gentler happy place.
Do not simply add the Contributor Covenant to your project and assume that any problems with civility, harassment, or discrimination will be solved. As a project maintainer you must be committed to enforcing the code of conduct.
There may be a time and place for banning members from this mailing list, temporarily and or permanently, but such discussions shall continue to be public, on the mailing list itself and open to discussion and contribution by all members. No duty is incumbent upon any member, including the "project maintainer" - if the community can't work out its problems, it is unfair to place such a burden upon such a one individual.
A code of conduct without enforcement sends a false signal that your project is welcoming and inclusive, and can create a dangerous situation for marginalized people who participate.
"Marginalized people" who are not competent to contribute on some technical level (which includes documentation writing, testing as well as programming), are not welcome - we the members of this mailing list are volunteers and, on this particular mailing list, are not willing to tutor those who have special needs - do not join the mailing list in such circumstances, there are other, appropriate forums, mailing lists and learning institutions which you ought apply to.
Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing list - we shall roast you in words, with glee!
Adding the Contributor Covenant to a project places responsibility on the project team that must not be taken lightly.
Since the archives of this mailing list are public, should you have even the smallest concern regarding your own robustness in public communication, then you are invited to browse those archives and make an assessment as to whether you are a suitable candidate to join this mailing list. If you do decide to join, you are required to make your first email an introduction, which introduction includes a reference to your assessment of the archives as well as any needs you feel that the members of this list ought be able to meet.
Before adopting the Contributor Covenant take the time to discuss and decide how to deal with problems as they emerge. Document the policy and procedure
Oh, we've taken the time, and "problems as they emerge" shall be handled publicly, on this mailing list! To the extent we the members of this maliing list consider you a problem, passive aggressive or otherwise, we WILL handle you, publicly, with the one caveat that all members are in general expected to show respectful consideration in respect of all private or "off-list" communications.
If you are uncomfortable with this policy, you are encouraged to find a more suitable community to join.
for enforcement, and add it to your README or in another visible, appropriate place. Consider if your project team has the willingness and maturity to follow through on your enforcement procedures.
A "community" that requires any significant policing, particularly clandestine policing, has lost its way - the tyranny of the majority is not the healthiest way, in the opinion of some members - speak clearly, speak the truth, and seek a fair response; if you don't receive a fair response, another community might be much less work for you, even if it provides less opportunities for emotional growth for you.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 7:03 AM, Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta@gmail.com> wrote:
Alas I'm not clever enough to come up with quite the right wording.
Somehow I wanna see the SJW's battle the S1W's ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCnL35irZ9o
Hello, Quoting Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net>:
Hi cp-ers,
On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general@postgresql.org , they are discussing a Code of Conduct.
Seems the Ruby language community are having the same discussion. This <http://rubinius.com/2016/01/26/the-problem-with-minaswan/> blog post summarises the authors argument nicely against these contracts. I quite like the argument that 'disagreeing is not nice'; we have the threat that list members won't contribute to 'arguments' because there's the risk they may be seen as harassing or not being 'nice', when it should be accepted that respectful arguments are 'healthy' in a community. On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of conduct', or adhering to it. Peter.
On 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli <anarchie+cpunks@metaverse.org> wrote:
Hello,
Quoting Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net>:
Hi cp-ers,
On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general@postgresql.org , they are discussing a Code of Conduct.
Seems the Ruby language community are having the same discussion. This <http://rubinius.com/2016/01/26/the-problem-with-minaswan/> blog post summarises the authors argument nicely against these contracts.
Thank you very much for the link - will read now.
I quite like the argument that 'disagreeing is not nice'; we have the threat that list members won't contribute to 'arguments' because there's the risk they may be seen as harassing or not being 'nice', when it should be accepted that respectful arguments are 'healthy' in a community.
Argument healthy? Come now, everybody vilt agree with me now, surely you must know zis!! Auto-philia is the only sanctioned sexuality on cpers, and any infraction will incursion a long and penetrating punishment! Any argument with this new responsibly restraint position shall be referred to Juan the One, and Rayzer the Precise, with moderation by Me ze Correct, for rezolution now ok
On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of conduct', or adhering to it.
Come on ... surely you jest?!? I wuz just about to propose we do like the Postgrs developers, create a committee designated by the core cpers, with an initial proposed CoC in line with the pg one, in about 3 months, and a final, to be published in 3 major national US papers to ensure the public gets the message. FEMA camp tickets, water boards and Pb shall be provided to all in pursuit of the greater good, dispose of each as you wilt.
Zenaan Harkness replies to: 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli wrote::
On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of
conduct', or adhering to it. Come on ... surely you jest?!?
When Abbie Hoffman was asked about the nature of the Chicago 7, 6, 8, 10 'conspiracy' he replied:
"Conspiracy? We can't even agree on lunch."
-- RR "Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them'
Code of conduct no but community agreements yes ... plus social norms and social engineering is alive and well even here on cypherpunks ... should we make a list? What is comming up here is restorative justice by subjects that have no clue that there is such a concept On Jan 27, 2016 5:50 PM, "Rayzer" <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
Zenaan Harkness replies to: 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli wrote::
On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of
conduct', or adhering to it. Come on ... surely you jest?!?
When Abbie Hoffman was asked about the nature of the Chicago 7, 6, 8, 10 'conspiracy' he replied:
"Conspiracy? We can't even agree on lunch."
-- RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them'
Dear ted you are part of the community and you can work to make it better or just complain about yesteryear On Feb 3, 2016 3:19 AM, "Cari Machet" <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
Code of conduct no but community agreements yes ... plus social norms and social engineering is alive and well even here on cypherpunks ... should we make a list?
What is comming up here is restorative justice by subjects that have no clue that there is such a concept On Jan 27, 2016 5:50 PM, "Rayzer" <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
Zenaan Harkness replies to: 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli wrote::
On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of
conduct', or adhering to it. Come on ... surely you jest?!?
When Abbie Hoffman was asked about the nature of the Chicago 7, 6, 8, 10 'conspiracy' he replied:
"Conspiracy? We can't even agree on lunch."
-- RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them'
By my records, the word "sheeple" appears in 2% of all messages posted on this list, making it demonstrably ironic that we are even discussing a call for something other than meritocracy. --dan
Somewhat confusing threading here Cari. I see a few possibilities as to what I could do here: * Be vigilant in calling out patriarchal, racist, and generally neoliberal or fascist ideas promoted by some of the more recent arrivals. * This would provided a benchmark on the list indicating that these ideas are not generally accepted. * This would also require me to argue with assholes on the Internet. As the say goes, pigs, mud, etc.. * Filter these people out and try to maintain productive on-topic discussion. * This would be of limited usefulness since people who I generally find to be quality contributors continue to respond to the Stormfront-esque crowd. * Filter the whole list, comb through it periodically to see if there is any useful signal, and call out the most egregious offenses I can find. * This is what I've chosen to do since it is optimal from my time perspective. I think this list is a lost cause at this point. Ever since around the time it became more discoverable after the switch from al-qaeda.net to cpunks.org, and some possibly overzealous cross-posting, the discourse has shifted from actual cypherpunkery to white men complaining about having their privilege eroded on other mailing lists. There are a number of quality contributors that no longer post here, reducing the signal and allowing more noise. I can't bring them back. But I can at least remind anyone more moderate listening that the cypherpunks list wasn't always a far-right discussion group, which I think is the reverence due to the community that used to exist. I'd appreciate any suggestions, onlist or offline, from anyone who thinks similarly of the ideological drift of this list from generally anti-authoritarian to crypto-white nationalism. On Fri, 2016-02-05 at 20:37 +0100, Cari Machet wrote:
Dear ted you are part of the community and you can work to make it better or just complain about yesteryear
On Feb 3, 2016 3:19 AM, "Cari Machet" <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote: Code of conduct no but community agreements yes ... plus social norms and social engineering is alive and well even here on cypherpunks ... should we make a list?
What is comming up here is restorative justice by subjects that have no clue that there is such a concept
On Jan 27, 2016 5:50 PM, "Rayzer" <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote: Zenaan Harkness replies to: 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli wrote:: >> On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of >> > conduct', or adhering to it. > Come on ... surely you jest?!?
When Abbie Hoffman was asked about the nature of the Chicago 7, 6, 8, 10 'conspiracy' he replied:
> "Conspiracy? We can't even agree on lunch."
-- RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them'
-- Sent from Ubuntu
love it ! thanks ted On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Ted Smith <tedks@riseup.net> wrote:
Somewhat confusing threading here Cari.
I see a few possibilities as to what I could do here:
* Be vigilant in calling out patriarchal, racist, and generally neoliberal or fascist ideas promoted by some of the more recent arrivals. * This would provided a benchmark on the list indicating that these ideas are not generally accepted. * This would also require me to argue with assholes on the Internet. As the say goes, pigs, mud, etc.. * Filter these people out and try to maintain productive on-topic discussion. * This would be of limited usefulness since people who I generally find to be quality contributors continue to respond to the Stormfront-esque crowd. * Filter the whole list, comb through it periodically to see if there is any useful signal, and call out the most egregious offenses I can find. * This is what I've chosen to do since it is optimal from my time perspective.
I think this list is a lost cause at this point. Ever since around the time it became more discoverable after the switch from al-qaeda.net to cpunks.org, and some possibly overzealous cross-posting, the discourse has shifted from actual cypherpunkery to white men complaining about having their privilege eroded on other mailing lists. There are a number of quality contributors that no longer post here, reducing the signal and allowing more noise. I can't bring them back. But I can at least remind anyone more moderate listening that the cypherpunks list wasn't always a far-right discussion group, which I think is the reverence due to the community that used to exist.
I'd appreciate any suggestions, onlist or offline, from anyone who thinks similarly of the ideological drift of this list from generally anti-authoritarian to crypto-white nationalism.
On Fri, 2016-02-05 at 20:37 +0100, Cari Machet wrote:
Dear ted you are part of the community and you can work to make it better or just complain about yesteryear
On Feb 3, 2016 3:19 AM, "Cari Machet" <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote: Code of conduct no but community agreements yes ... plus social norms and social engineering is alive and well even here on cypherpunks ... should we make a list?
What is comming up here is restorative justice by subjects that have no clue that there is such a concept
On Jan 27, 2016 5:50 PM, "Rayzer" <Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote: Zenaan Harkness replies to: 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli wrote:: >> On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of >> > conduct', or adhering to it. > Come on ... surely you jest?!?
When Abbie Hoffman was asked about the nature of the Chicago 7, 6, 8, 10 'conspiracy' he replied:
> "Conspiracy? We can't even agree on lunch."
-- RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them'
-- Sent from Ubuntu
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
Ted Smith wrote:
cypherpunks list wasn't always a far-right discussion group
You're totally offbase. It's Anarchists vs Libertarians who think they are, and some even write code. AFAICT this was NEVER a 'pure coders list'. There ARE going to be ebbs and flows between the junctures of politics and pervasive surveillance, it's amelioration, and tidy code .... and an occasional stack overflow too. "You're either on the bus or off the bus..." Some logger that hippies venerated said that. -- RR " The Internet treats censorship as a malfunction and routes around it." ~John Perry Barlow
On Tue, 2016-02-09 at 09:40 -0800, Rayzer wrote:
Ted Smith wrote:
cypherpunks list wasn't always a far-right discussion group
You're totally offbase. It's Anarchists vs Libertarians who think they are, and some even write code. AFAICT this was NEVER a 'pure coders list'. There ARE going to be ebbs and flows between the junctures of politics and pervasive surveillance, it's amelioration, and tidy code .... and an occasional stack overflow too.
"You're either on the bus or off the bus..." Some logger that hippies venerated said that.
Yes it was never "pure coders," but it was at least 90% PET and PET politics and maybe 10% schizophrenic rambling. Now it's maybe 5% PET politics, 80% racial strength/bicycle regulation opposition, and 10% schizophrenic rambling. -- Sent from Ubuntu
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/27/2016 06:17 AM, Peter Tonoli wrote:
On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of conduct', or adhering to it.
I haven't been around here long enough to dare presume to speak on behalf of the cpunks list regs, but it was my impression that the list does have a code of conduct. I can't find my copy, but I believe it reads "Fuck you, I do what I want." Not sure of the exact wording but it's something to that effect IIRC. It seems to be working OK here so far. Ain't broke, don't fix it. If you don't like it, go elsewhere; anarchy ain't for everybody. In re FLOSS development and its social infrastructure: In any healthy and productive engineering shop, physical or virtual, outside observers who assume that a primate pecking order defines and governs /all/ human social roles and behaviors may be forgiven for seeing a "meritocracy" where none exists. In a healthy, productive engineering shop, anyone who contributes to the practical objectives of the project is valued as a team member and encouraged to continue doing so. Those who are in a position to make large and highly visible contributions may thereby become "popular" but this does not confer authority on them, and is not an obstacle to anyone else's contributions. Of course there are dysfunctional engineering shops, commercial and non-commercial. Introducing policies requiring the participants in a toxic work environment promise to play nice, and promise to punish those who do not, would only compound existing abuses of power by adding a fresh layer of passive aggressive posturing and manipulation. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWqMj2AAoJEDZ0Gg87KR0L+QgP/R6CS5ee8Z9TToB9CIWS3XSM uZNavKBaMS1bZNMBMUchqg0IHRA9y4RBdmyftxT2pXGCN+zX6U6EY0BHvQ14zeJo 4Kp3DjdRBU5hLdDGGh0/hNUJKk9/1uP0yxGOVqno5H4iVHkMzCAEiHTXyYkEsWcY /SBJtN30GTgS7UR88yeuSwFDbTLOUnVSahN7rLpWnLeenniTl21QmIo37FIs8Diy hYAYzNcVlxvqHgOs5We1SUL5oBLDQjeBqTU1SExNkPJvj3X/v5g/JBrwYCSIKTUI aKEoC73Fb8awWaqbkoCsHoMpCuu3BJLvPSnqWB8FRRnhE37EjrautT9rtXLUylr9 sWEk/LWfat3eFIxXwVHiWuMO/SVG1xbLwghTdRSvBQcfJCMhZ1E5AszhHm8Qef1X xRukXmQDSgpkW0w93zVLeVFLhNg2bNyHkrKEVhkrf0VOMeq9CMm2KynM0zkPrhyF 2r6LL0zdtP+mW6OiojSO8FT346eBRMHQUGV3RS3tTO3N2pzHnQQ/fhW3Xs9DHi01 JEgcE7PgS2vT1PpdIgBPkgHmssYBaHW7Z8otQ1UY3SUAojH6jtBtiQp7dIMFe4JQ 5cwOVkvlERozoavokJJAD55oEUupRmUr/y3cnLv251YEX+FKz0XlW8LQG0DIBruM HqOlCywT7nIs81doAzYY =TKW8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Wed, 2016-01-27 at 08:41 -0500, Steve Kinney wrote:
It seems to be working OK here so far.
Have you seen this list in the last ~6 months or so? God, I can't even remember how long it's been since cpunks was good. (inb4 cpunks was never good) Were you around when there was actual cypherpunk content instead of right-wing drivel like this thread? Maybe take a look at the archives. -- Sent from Ubuntu
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 04:34:34PM -0500, Ted Smith wrote:
Have you seen this list in the last ~6 months or so? God, I can't even remember how long it's been since cpunks was good. (inb4 cpunks was never good)
And fascist policing of the mailing list would improve the quality of postings? Tom -- sent from the past
participants (12)
-
Cari Machet -
dan＠geer.org -
Georgi Guninski -
grarpamp -
Jason McVetta -
mo -
Peter Tonoli -
Rayzer -
Steve Kinney -
Ted Smith -
Tom -
Zenaan Harkness