re: Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp
grarpamp wrote:
Bitcoin's price dipped after Trump's negative tweet.
correlation is not causation
as to 'digital cash'* bringing down governments, that's just fantasy.
A digital "cash / currency"... those terms are containers into which people dump various descriptive words and capabilities in order to try to define them,
you can define 'digital cash' as having the best properties you can wish for - and govcorp will still be able to attack THE USERS more or less easily. Point being, crypto systems by themselves are powerless.
*cryptocurrencies are not cash AT ALL since they require massive infrastructure
The infrastructure need only do some list of useful things such as keep accurate ledger, run timely and relatively inexpensive tx processing, and cost more in distributed collective defense than any attacker can muster or gain from offense. "Massive" (which you failed to define) is not necessarily a requirement.
massive infrastructure is the #1 requirement. In order to have 'digital cash' you need foundries, each one costing 5000 million dollars(all of them currently owned by govcorp of course) and a global telecom network. As we all know the global telecom network is the NSA's spying network ususally referred to as 'the interweb'. And to produce the hardware that makes up the interent we need a few 10s or 100s of billions to pay for more foundries, optic fiber and whatnot. THAT is the infrastructure needed for 'digital cash'. Compare that to the costs of gold...
all depend on ONE unique ledger
Most cryptocurrencies that utilize a single unique ledger do so in a redundantly distributed fashion, etc.
yes, the ONE ledger is managed in a distributed fashion, but it still is ONE ledger. Well except in things like the lightning network where channels are actually peer to peer. But even if the second layer is more decentralized, it still relies on the base layer acting as a clearinghouse. So there still is a centralized bottleneck.
Unlike N different central "cash" or Gold ledgers where N is the number of accounts you have at such GovCorpBank
well that's my point. Systems that require a ledger are centralized by design. The moment you start using a ledger supposefly based on gold you are not using gold anymore. Just 'golden' IOUs.
even govt paper bills are real cash, they are actually decentralized and anonymous.
If those are your exclusive set of words you like to define "cash" by, then that "cash" works for you.
what I mean by 'cash' is a something that doesn't need a middleman. I can pay you using bits of metals, or even physical bills issued by a govt mafia, without needing an internet connection and without anybody knowing that the transaction took place apart from us two. Digital 'cash' does not have those properties.
However "govt paper" implies government exists, which is most certainly not an ideal situation.
of course. The drawback of physical bills is that the govt can print tons of them. But apart from that, we can use bills to make transactions that are 'anonymous' and don't go through any central clearinghouse.
And "decentralized", living somewhere between a single point dot and 100% distributed amongst all peers, can have certain risks and mindfulness needed as well.
by decentralized I mean that transactions using 'physical tokens' do not need to be recorded in or go through any unique database for them to work. And by the way, that's how barter and money worked since the dawn of history. Banking was a step BACKWARDS.
Gold and other commodities
That only works within your range of personal travel.
When you start wanting to "transmit" gold,
create trust and security systems and etc that can span that distance. So in order to effectively
The real problem is that you created and allowed
You now have more or less all of the crypto and tools needed to create a far better
yes and? You see, freedom isn't free and there's no 'free lunch'. You can personally manage your own money, or let god's choosen master race do it... then you have to create transmission systems for physicals and messages, create ledgers, oops, so you're not using gold anymore, as pointed above. transmit gold, you've essentially created a cryptocurrency system to do so, at which point gold itself can and will likely become moot. lawl, gold would be the source of that currency's value, so not 'moot' at all. Still, such systems are a FAILURE by design. the wrong cryptocurrency system ie: GovBankCorp as the first such generation of a transmission system. well yes a honest banking system is theoretically possible. But to get one we need to burn down wall street with all the bankers included. Burn them alive. So who's going to do that? transmission system. wrong.
Most of humanity does not currently desire to moving society back to your quaint local agrarian communes or whatever it is your aggression is advocating for.
what 'agression' are you talking about
Cryptocurrency can work via sneakernet and even by hand calculation... it just becomes extremely slow.
lawl - pointless comment.
The minimum general assumption in cryptocurrency is that both electricity and digital communication and computation methods will remain up and generally accessible to everyone.
At which point, so long as society and ultimately human DNA maintains the desire for a "forward" progress
an absurd assumption that stupidly ignores the fact that the digital infrastructure is fully owned by govcorp. Hey, you can't even talk about 'cryptocurrencies' in the 'libertarian' 'cryptography' mailing list. that includes electricity comms and compute tech, yeah, techno 'progressive' garbage which you actually do not understand.
GovBankCorp Fiat will remain below Gold which will remain below Cryptocurrency which becomes top dog and moots all others.
gold isn't below 'cryptocurrencies' at all. Except in the minds of 'techno' 'optimists' who are useful idiots for the NSA.
Maintain fallbacks in the mix as you wish. But don't be so stupid as to continue to allow GovBankCorp to rule over and keep you in slavery.
I'm simply pointing out that your 'digital cash' is worse than gold and that believing that it would 'magically' overthrow governmetn is laughable wishful thinking or worse.
No one ever said crypto was invulnerable to global thermonuclear war,
lolwut. Crypto is completely vulnerable to a bunch of peopel being thrown in jail for 'money laundering', a bunch of 'mining farms' being raided, etc etc.
they just said you'll have MUCH bigger problems than worrying about where your crypto, "cash", or gold is.
If you're smart, you'll end government before they can reach for the launch keys. yeah and I dont need you and your $5b 'progressive' foundries to tell me that. @InsertNameSpace said: Capitalism cannot thrive with a socialist central banking system, capitalism? The hell is that?. As to the current 'progressive' and 'digital' economic system it works perfectly well with central banking, does it not.
"The United States government is a foreign corporation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_East_India_Company
Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania once gave a speech endorsing the adoption of the Company's flag by the United States as their national flag. He said to George Washington of Virginia, "While the field of your flag must be new in the details of its design, it need not be entirely new in its elements. There is already in use a flag, I refer to the flag of the East India Company."
Your whole case for gold seems based on some desire to limit oneself to local affairs solely within physical reach of unregulated off-grid off-archy anarcho communal societies. That's fine. But if so, it's not reality... that thinking fails when considering obvious externality dependencies gold incurs... - where to get the gold in the first place, most mines and exchange are fuck all far from agrarian chicken based communes. - how to price it effectively in relation to global markets, even between communes, including mineflation effects... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gold - how to transmit it beyond the physical limitations of distance and weight one or more supposedly trusted human beings (ie: only yourself) can store, carry, and reach. Once you start dreaming up and creating a trustable system to store, transmit, or price gold or anything else over a non self distance, you've effectively created a cryptocurrency system. Even old school hawala could be considered a cryptocurrency system, a shitty one, with more risk of third party loss, and physical transmission dependant settlement now and then. Mostly just numbers in a ledger, distributed or not. Sure gold as a portion of holdings as a grid down backup and even daily local use if you want, but you know as well as anyone else you're far more likely to be shipping aka transmitting crypto off to buy some remote thing, than some physible like gold. As before, bottom line, it's really fucking hard and expensive to trustably transmit gold to all the places one might want to send it in today's world. Thus cryptocurrency analog to gold has arisen and is being adopted. If you want to live in a different world where physical gold is actually securely usable over a distance, or is somehow immune to pump and dump exacted at your local borders to your detriment, start telling us what that world would look like. Surely so long as Governments and Banks are present and fucking with "cash", cash is not a real option if you want to avoid being fucked with, least not because "monetary policy" print and burn. Not to mention the hard problem of counterfeiting whether they exist or not. Same with gold, as nobody will bother assaying when selling their chickens, cars, services, etc. Gold is at least reasonable, but is also a really fucking hard problem. That's partly why it got easily and rapidly displaced by the wrong cryptocurrency system, aka Fiat.
correlation is not causation
The wall street crypto market, unlike dark and under the table cryptocurrency usage models, is very sensitive to government. It will settle down as adoption cap begins to nullify government cap.
govcorp will still be able to attack THE USERS
Again, cryptoanarchy assumptions... - electricity, comms (internet), encryption Of course cryptocurrency fails without those. So does this list, and anything else in life appearing since those things dawn.
Point being, crypto systems by themselves are powerless.
So are "cash" and gold. Belief, examination, and usage imparted accordingly, makes all three powerful.
massive infrastructure ... costing ... NSA
Whole other discussion to consider if current GovCorp model is most efficient means of achieving above assumptions securely... #OpenFabs , #OpenHW , #OpenMeshNet , #OpenEnergy
all depend on ONE unique ledger
Most cryptocurrencies that utilize a single unique ledger do so in a redundantly distributed fashion, etc.
yes, the ONE ledger is managed in a distributed fashion, but it still is ONE ledger. So there still is a centralized bottleneck.
Under the assumptions, distributed single ledgers do require education in order to avoid things like 51%. Similar education to avoid losing their gold to attacks.
Unlike N different central "cash" or Gold ledgers where N is the number of accounts you have at such GovCorpBank
well that's my point. Systems that require a ledger are centralized by design. The moment you start using a ledger supposefly based on gold you are not using gold anymore. Just 'golden' IOUs.
To avoid IOU's and deposit ledgers suggests that people are able to, and or wanted to, personally hold their entire life's transactions and worth in gold and chickens. If that were true "ledgers" would never have been created. But it's not, because they can't and or don't want to. Multiple entire separate ledgers "account" at multiple places are survivably redundant, but only usable within their local spheres of trust, and not reconcilable and or aggregatable into a wider market without trust between them. So again, if you want that, which most do, you're back to creating a "system" to do that, which if it's strong enough to do it right, is itself morphable into a cryptocurrency.
what I mean by 'cash' is a something that doesn't need a middleman. I can pay you using bits of metals, or even physical bills issued by a govt mafia,
Most everything is brought to you, brokered, mined, issued, secretly held in reserve, etc by a middleman. Gold and cash are no exception. Purchase power of every single GovCorp cash physical bills ever has always dropped over time. You can pay people with it, but there's zero reason to want to hold it long term. Gold weight directly vs a basket of goods over time, now that's more interesting comparison, you can post a link to that...
without needing an internet connection and without anybody knowing that the transaction took place apart from us two. Digital 'cash' does not have those properties.
Bitcoin-BTC over clearnet... definitely not. Privacy coins (or over darknets)... more likely, and as crypto brings things down.
we can use bills to make transactions that are 'anonymous' and don't go through any central clearinghouse.
If you're willing and able to safely hoard them. If not, you're back into the ledger and transmission systems, and bill serial number scanners at banks, in bill acceptors, with cameras recording you, etc.
by decentralized I mean that transactions using 'physical tokens' do not need to be recorded in or go through any unique database for them to work. And by the way, that's how barter and money worked since the dawn of history. Banking was a step BACKWARDS.
Of course. But you're not showing how gold (or even cash) scales to today without reverting society backwards to the localized dawn of history. That's the hard problem. Everyone's going to die anyways someday before ever achieving outliving the universe, so what's any of it matter, right? That's another subject thread you all can start.
personally manage your own money, or let god's choosen master race do it...
Cryptocurrency as prophecied by cypherpunks does not require masters. Of course it's far too soon to suggest any candidates, let alone any coming close to demonstrating such achievement in vivo.
lawl, gold would be the source of that currency's value, so not 'moot' at all. Still, such systems are a FAILURE by design.
The point is, that once you build a system to transmit gold that has as much trust as gold itself, the two become interchangeable in all comparisons, except the former falls off due to one failed comparison, transmissibility.
well yes a honest banking system is theoretically possible. But to get one we need to burn down wall street with all the bankers included. Burn them alive. So who's going to do that?
Honest banking system? Oh pray tell. Islamic finance under Sharia Law? Bankers, gatekeepers, thieves, are hated by most, so they'll burn sooner. Stocks, more generally any vehicle for investment returns, most seem to like that, you'd have propose significantly more attractive or philosophical things to make that burn.
wrong.
Any money is steeped in belief, so too early to tell.
an absurd assumption
Changing the cypherpunk assumption invokes an entirely new thread in which people can discuss what might work in a world without that. And another thread to discuss why their assumption might either be currently or permanently wrong (cannot be made the future status).
gold isn't below 'cryptocurrencies' at all. Except in the minds of 'techno' 'optimists'
When people come up with something to defeat them, those cypherpunks, those maximalists, take it to them, or to the public. Humanity often prefers testing assumptions in real life, both gold and cryptocurrency and cash are out there now, such that debating them is unlikely to have much effect on experiment result.
I'm simply pointing out that your 'digital cash' is worse than gold and that believing that it would 'magically' overthrow governmetn is laughable wishful thinking or worse.
Other than lack of transmissibility, safe storage without [un] trust{ed,able} third parties, assay, etc, etc... gold isn't that bad. As before, use it in your mix to whatever degree you wish.
Crypto is completely vulnerable to a bunch of peopel being thrown in jail for 'money laundering'
That's distributed, and just as hard a task as for "using gold".
a bunch of 'mining farms' being raided, etc
Tor Directory Authorities being raided? Filesharing, cryptocurrencies, Tor, PGP, etc... The stakes simply aren't yet high enough to really begin testing those boundaries. Cypherpunks say they will be, and predict that crypto will win. Time will tell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_East_India_Company
Admiral Ackbar says "It's a trap".
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:25:26 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
Your whole case for gold seems based on some desire to limit oneself to local affairs
No. My whole case is based on commodity money being better than 'crypytocurrencies', something that I'm showing and you just keep ignoring. Also, you clearly do not understand money, or are playing dumb. At any rate you don't have a leg to stand on. No, money is not just an 'accounting system' based on 'trust'. That view is exactly the view that govcorp fascists, commies and similar 'intelectuals' have on money. I suggest you study money before talking about money. And I'll stress again that your cryptosystems depend on hardware that is currently fully controlled by your enemy, and that you don't have any way and not even a plan to produce your own hardware. Apart from an idiotic twatter 'hashtag' #openfabs "Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp" No, it doesn't.
Gold is at least reasonable, but is also a really fucking hard problem.
still easier than 'open fabs'
That's partly why it got easily and rapidly displaced by the wrong cryptocurrency system, aka Fiat.
that's one sample of the politically and economically ignorant nonsense you've been spewing. Gold was obviously displaced because govcorp scum can't print trillions of tons of gold. Not even g'ds chosen master race can do it!
So again, if you want that, which most do, you're back to creating a "system" to do that, which if it's strong enough to do it right, is itself morphable into a cryptocurrency.
ignorant nonsense
without needing an internet connection and without anybody knowing that the transaction took place apart from us two. Digital 'cash' does not have those properties.
Bitcoin-BTC over clearnet... definitely not. Privacy coins (or over darknets)... more likely, and as crypto brings things down.
dude, ALL cryptocurrencies require a ledger and 100s of billions in govcorp owned 'infrastructure'.
personally manage your own money, or let god's choosen master race do it...
Cryptocurrency as prophecied by cypherpunks does not require masters.
bla bla - but I guess it's nice that you use the word 'prophecy' since you're clearly engaging in religious fraud, not presenting a rational argument.
Stocks, more generally any vehicle for investment returns, most seem to like that, you'd have propose significantly more attractive or philosophical things to make that burn.
I said wall street should be burnt down and you're defending stocks?
Changing the cypherpunk assumption invokes an entirely new thread
not sure what 'cypherpunk assumption' you're referring to. Is that more religious nonsense on your part? Some absurd and unproven article of techno faith perhaps?
I'm simply pointing out that your 'digital cash' is worse than gold and that believing that it would 'magically' overthrow governmetn is laughable wishful thinking or worse.
Other than lack of transmissibility, safe storage without [un] trust{ed,able} third parties, assay, etc, etc... gold isn't that bad.
it remains way better than futuristic cryptogarbage accounting based on 'faith', eh 'trust'. also, again just one sample of your nonsense > safe storage enlighten me about 'safe storage' of private keys please?
a bunch of 'mining farms' being raided, etc
Tor Directory Authorities being raided?
kinda wondering what you mean? Are you admiting that all the 'anonimity' available comes from the US navy and their spying network within the NSA spying network?
The stakes simply aren't yet high enough to really begin testing those boundaries.
the stakes are not high enough?
Cypherpunks say they will be, and predict that crypto will win.
yeah because of blind faith in 'technology'. I guess you are unable to appreciate what sort of involuntary self parody you have achieved here.
Time will tell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_East_India_Company
Admiral Ackbar says "It's a trap".
On 7/22/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:25:26 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
No. My whole case is based on commodity money money is not just an 'accounting system' based on 'trust'. study money before talking about money.
Then tell us, what are your complete properties of money? Surely not strictly a "commodity". What is even your definition of "commodity"?
And I'll stress again that your cryptosystems depend on hardware that is currently fully controlled by your enemy, and that you don't have any way and not even a plan to produce your own hardware. Apart from an idiotic twatter 'hashtag' #openfabs
People have ways and plans. What you think those tags are for but to troll around and see who else gets thinking and talking on ways and plans before developing and executing them. Sure as hell don't see anyone talking about the subject from there on Perry's Censored StateCorp list, lol. Nor here. So why fucking bother, to be the only one with such gear? Nope.
"Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp" No, it doesn't.
Cypherpunks CryptoAnarchists seem to think it can. Go find and talk with them about it here.
Gold is at least reasonable, but is also a really fucking hard problem.
still easier than 'open fabs'
Net cost, all in, probably within same magnitude. Especially considering once competitive #OpenHW produced on #OpenFabs is on the market it will crush out closed untrustable shit. Then what is there to say... nothing.
Gold was obviously displaced because govcorp scum can't print trillions of tons of gold. Not even g'ds chosen master race can do it!
Of course. That's why cypherpunks came up with proof of work... so long as cost of any given attack is greater than any sum of attackers, no such masters can do it. Stupid race of sheeple let gold get displaced by scum is another story altogether.
dude, ALL cryptocurrencies require a ledger and 100s of billions in govcorp owned 'infrastructure'.
Who do you think owns all the gold infrastructure, mining, shipping, storage, ledgers, exchange. You think you and your little sack can securely hold all the gold you ever need in life between your legs? Your arms can securely aim and throw it over the hundreds of kilometres you might wish to send it directly to another party? Get real, dude. You want to live on a farm, fuck I'll join ya, plow fields and some hot wives. But till then.
Cryptocurrency as prophecied by cypherpunks religious fraud
Fuck religion. Live your own.
not sure what 'cypherpunk assumption' you're referring to.
Prerequisite assumptions for a cypherpunk cryptoanarchist cryptocurrency... electricity, internet, crypto Don't have them?... you're back to farmville.
it remains way better than futuristic cryptogarbage accounting based on 'faith', eh 'trust'.
Take it up in public with the entire cryptocurrency space, surely they'd love to have you keynote or panel their conventions. Bring Schiff along with you, he's a pretty cool guy to hang out with.
enlighten me about 'safe storage' of private keys please?
Enlighten the list about 'safe storage' of gold, please. Not much fucking difference.
a bunch of 'mining farms' being raided, etc Tor Directory Authorities being raided?
NSA spying network?
A raid is a raid, an op an op. Networks, code, and hw have been jacked all to hell and back by now. You know that.
kinda wondering what you mean?
The problem is at a higher level than current defenses or action deployed against it. Sheeple need to uplevel their game if they expect to win it. Most don't even know how fucked they are.
the stakes are not high enough?
You know all people care about is youtube. No high stakes there, no free thought, no real battles being fought.
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:22:27 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/22/19, Punk <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:25:26 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
No. My whole case is based on commodity money money is not just an 'accounting system' based on 'trust'. study money before talking about money.
Then tell us, what are your complete properties of money? Surely not strictly a "commodity". What is even your definition of "commodity"?
yes, the best money is strictly a commodity. And a commodity is a good that is common, more or less uniform, is usually produced in bulk - primary products and raw materials are the best examples of commodities. Of course not all commodities can be used as money. Some commodities have special properties like high chemical stability, divisibility and high value per mass - good example of a good with those properties is of course...gold. And silver for smaller transactions and change... To complete the picture, the mechanism enabled by money is just BARTER but instead of being direct barter, it's a two steps process. You sell something you don't want for money (1st barter step) and you use the money to buy something you want (2nd step). See, there isn't any 'trust' or 'global accounting' involved here, nor needed.
And I'll stress again that your cryptosystems depend on hardware that is currently fully controlled by your enemy, and that you don't have any way and not even a plan to produce your own hardware. Apart from an idiotic twatter 'hashtag' #openfabs
People have ways and plans. What you think those tags are for but to troll around and see who else gets thinking and talking on ways and plans before developing and executing them.
Yes and that's fine in principle although twatter as a means is less than ideal - but what I'm getting at is that currently there's little support for a project that requires lots of it.
Sure as hell don't see anyone talking about the subject from there on Perry's Censored StateCorp list, lol. Nor here.
Indeed.
So why fucking bother, to be the only one with such gear? Nope.
"Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp" No, it doesn't.
Cypherpunks CryptoAnarchists seem to think it can. Go find and talk with them about it here.
People believing in X doesn't mean X is true. I readily admit that one of the most basic cypherpunk premises is that certain 'tools' can be used against the state. That's an idea from the 90s that so far hasn't been too successful. So despite having 'strong encryption' and 'cheap supercomputers', what we're seeing is that tecnhocratic totalitarianism increases by the day.
Gold is at least reasonable, but is also a really fucking hard problem.
still easier than 'open fabs'
Net cost, all in, probably within same magnitude.
you can pick gold OFF THE GROUND! Capital costs for gold mining can be effectively ZERO. Again, why and how do you think gold has been used for thousands of years? On the other hand the price of a 'fab' is astronomical, but even more imporant, a 'fab' is the most sophisticated kind of factory you can think of. It's not something you can build in a garage. To manufacture chips you need access to all sorts of engineering services and raw materials which in turn require lots of capital.
Especially considering once competitive #OpenHW produced on #OpenFabs is on the market it will crush out closed untrustable shit. Then what is there to say... nothing.
wow. yes, if you solve the problem then the problem is solved! You've 'proved' that A=A! You 'solved' the problem by wishful thinking! TAH MARKET!
Gold was obviously displaced because govcorp scum can't print trillions of tons of gold. Not even g'ds chosen master race can do it!
Of course. That's why cypherpunks came up with proof of work...
And what is proof of work? Oh wait, proof of work is a 'digital' equivalent of something like gold mining, except that it's arguably less efficient.
so long as cost of any given attack is greater than any sum of attackers, no such masters can do it.
But the whole system is pretty fragile. When you use energy to mine gold, you get gold and gold lasts forever. Proof of work calculations on the other hand are pretty useless as a...commodity.
Stupid race of sheeple let gold get displaced by scum is another story altogether.
I don't think it's another story. It's something that goes to the heart of the political problem so it's pretty relevant.
dude, ALL cryptocurrencies require a ledger and 100s of billions in govcorp owned 'infrastructure'.
Who do you think owns all the gold infrastructure, mining, shipping, storage, ledgers, exchange.
Same people who own all the rest of govcorp's infrastructure. Still a fair amount of people own gold, especially in places like india. And by now you should have stopped making the same invalid non argument. Whatever sort of govcorp interference you can find in the gold system is WORSE in the 'digital realm' of 'high technology'.
You think you and your little sack can securely hold all the gold you ever need in life between your legs? Your arms can securely aim and throw it over the hundreds of kilometres you might wish to send it directly to another party?
you keep repeating the same nonsense? What do you expect apart from being called a retard?
Get real, dude.
right back at you - 'high tech' makes it a lot easier for govcorp to enslave you. That's a basic political-technological fact.
You want to live on a farm, fuck I'll join ya, plow fields and some hot wives. But till then.
till then what? Keep promoting a system that works against you? Where's the sense in that?
Cryptocurrency as prophecied by cypherpunks religious fraud
Fuck religion. Live your own.
not sure what 'cypherpunk assumption' you're referring to.
Prerequisite assumptions for a cypherpunk cryptoanarchist cryptocurrency... electricity, internet, crypto
OK so where's your anarchistic internet? And your anarchistic HW manufacturers. OK, so until you solve THOSE 'issues', your 'cypherpunk cryptoanarchist cryptocurrency' is based on flawed statist premises and w i l l n o t w o r k. so, obviously, the problem is a general one, and attacking one single bit of it won't solve it.
Don't have them?... you're back to farmville.
If you are a libertarian then you understand that farmville is infinitely better than techno global totalitiarianism. And your choice is a false one anyway. You can have electricity in farmville without the NSA. You can't have internet without the NSA. I'm not being a complete luddite here. Industry can be good if used responsibly. But the current system is the exact opposite of what it should be.
it remains way better than futuristic cryptogarbage accounting based on 'faith', eh 'trust'.
Take it up in public with the entire cryptocurrency space, surely they'd love to have you keynote or panel their conventions.
Of course they wouldn't. Why would a bunch of delusional people engaged in circle jerking, and who only care about money be interested in learning a wider truth? Also, vast majority of ppl in the 'cryptocurrecny space' are anything but anarchists.
Bring Schiff along with you, he's a pretty cool guy to hang out with.
schiff is a plutocratic asshole. Textbook case of fake libertarian. I don't care what he says about either bitcoin or gold.
enlighten me about 'safe storage' of private keys please?
Enlighten the list about 'safe storage' of gold, please. Not much fucking difference.
YEAH and that's MY point. Many of the faults you find with commodity money exist in digital money as well. Is digital money easier to transfer? Yes, but ONLY because there's massive infrastructure to enable such transfer.
kinda wondering what you mean?
The problem is at a higher level than current defenses or action deployed against it. Sheeple need to uplevel their game if they expect to win it. Most don't even know how fucked they are.
Completely agree.
the stakes are not high enough?
You know all people care about is youtube. No high stakes there, no free thought, no real battles being fought.
Well yes, they don't know how high the stakes are. But reality exists independently of retards being aware of it.
yeah because of blind faith in 'technology'.
There is a lot of blind faith in tech, a lot of hand waving about hard problems from ostensibly "smart" people. Ray Kurzweil, who is 71, thinks he will live forever - he predicts by 2029 medical tech will be at a point where each year will add at least another year to your life span, effective immortality. He also thinks anthropic climate change (yeah, I know Juan thinks it's all a big hoax, though I'm not clear who benefits from such a hoax - massive vested interests in carbon fuel industries drive troves of billionaires, not to mention entire nation states, but in any case) is nothing to worry about - Moore's law applied to renewables, it's no fucking problem :). It all sounds like technology as religious experience to me. Even if you buy into the inevitability of this future tech, is it really a road map for utopia? Humanity is facing some tough shit, much of it directly tied to tech progression: massive surveillance states on levels never previously imagined, wealth continually centralized among a tiny world elite, existential risks as a direct result of technological advances - atomic weapons, other "WMD", and of course turning the heat up on the planet by dumping carbon into the atmosphere at ever greater rates. It seems like we are on a race to destroy ourselves... Will tech help us or hinder us? Imagine the "democratization of high-tech" that comes with all this progress - what happens when anybody with the latest & greatest 3d printer and a few other relatively cheap odds and ends can create an atomic bomb? What happens when gene hacking becomes truly cheap and ubiquitous, and anyone with a little biology knowledge and the right hardware can engineer a plague? What's the answer to the Fermi paradox?
On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:57:23 +0000 John Newman <jnn@synfin.org> wrote:
yeah because of blind faith in 'technology'.
There is a lot of blind faith in tech, a lot of hand waving about hard problems from ostensibly "smart" people.
Ray Kurzweil, who is 71, thinks he will live forever
kurzweil is a fucking monster, any way you look at him. As usual reality surpasses fiction. Kurzweil and all the ppl like him should be at the very top of the AP list.
He also thinks anthropic climate change (yeah, I know Juan thinks it's all a big hoax, though I'm not clear who benefits from such a hoax
to state the painfully obvious, the 'green technologies' mafia do, the govt enviros do, etc. That said, maybe the weather is hotter now that 30 years ago. And maybe it's because of increased CO2. But what follows from that? A couple of options 1) the problem can be easily solved by planting more trees 2) industrial 'civilization' will collapse and that is GOOD. Think of it as nature getting rid of scum like kurzweil and accomplices.
- massive vested interests in carbon fuel industries drive troves of billionaires, not to mention entire nation states,
as if chip manufacturers aren't as powerful and rich as oil barons. Hey, local govt scum in this banana republic is replacing lights on the streets with the 'latest LED technology'. I wonder who profits from that...
but in any case) is nothing to worry about - Moore's law applied to renewables, it's no fucking problem :).
yeah current levels of waste in the 'first developed world' are prolly impossible with solar energy.
It all sounds like technology as religious experience to me.
Even if you buy into the inevitability of this future tech, is it really a road map for utopia? Humanity is facing some tough shit, much of it directly tied to tech progression: massive surveillance states on levels never previously imagined, wealth continually centralized among a tiny world elite,
yeah, that's the very core of the problem, not global warming, even it it's real. Again a collapse of the current economic system caused by 'climate change' would be GREAT. But the real problem isn't climate change (and it can be solved by the same oligarchy that caused it). The real problem is that 'technology' vastly favors the ruling class or oligarchy.
existential risks as a direct result of technological advances - atomic weapons, other "WMD", and of course turning the heat up on the planet by dumping carbon into the atmosphere at ever greater rates.
It seems like we are on a race to destroy ourselves... Will tech help us or hinder us? Imagine the "democratization of high-tech" that comes with all this progress
Except there isn't any such thing AT ALL. The more complex industry become the LESS democratic it is. What you have to imagine is the 'New and Improved Products' that are fully controlled by govcorp and are going to be used as weapons against you. Imagine every single electronic device being bugged and connected to the NSA. You know like all amd and intel crapware already is.
- what happens when anybody with the latest & greatest 3d printer and a few other relatively cheap odds and ends can create an atomic bomb?
that's fantasy, but it would be good. At least it would be better than your government having a monopoly on nukes.
What happens when gene hacking becomes truly cheap and ubiquitous, and anyone with a little biology knowledge and the right hardware can engineer a plague?
That's not ideal but it's still better than only govcorp being able to do it. But again, there's no such access to 'high tech' at all and the ruling class isn't planing on enabling such access any time soon. Their plan is the exact opposite. And they are carring it out rather succesfully.
What's the answer to the Fermi paradox?
I don't know =P
participants (3)
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grarpamp
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John Newman
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Punk