On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 18:51:13 -0700 Shelley wrote:

On October 28, 2015 6:15:39 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...

This is getting embarrassing for "the West" - the so called moral high ground of the West, never existed. Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed -after- Japan had surrendered, just that America insisted on humiliation of unconditional surrender.

You're absolutely right. We USians (or Americunts, as Juan says, which always makes me laugh in agreement),

disclaimer of sorts : I don't mean to offend *all* americans. Only the nationalistic type =P (and I fully realize Shelley doesn't belong in that category)

only have propaganda "textbooks" in school. It's not unless/until we are fortunate enough to stumble upon Howard Zinn's books or develop critical thinking skills, despite their best efforts at indoctrination, that we truly see.

for what it's worth, when I first got interested in political philosophy, I foolishly assumed that the US were a 'free society'. It took me a while to gauge the distance between libertarian rhetoric and reality...

...

http://russia-insider.com/en/documents-reveal-west-plotted-false-flag-justif... " In 1957, it was PG-13 “border clashes”. Now we have “government chemical weapons attacks against orphans” "

I wonder where our CIA apologists are now ... Z

I'm not sure how seriously to take Russia-insider as I haven't looked into it enough, but this would hardly be surprising. They were still on a roll from taking out the democratically elected leader of Iran, Mossadeq, in 1953. How many years was it before this was common knowledge?

It's despicable. Now, as then.

(I don't often comment on politics. Feeling sassy tonight, I guess. Heh.)

-S

Shelly you read zinn and dont internalize it? Yes the CIA is perceived as master of the universe but the syrian revolt began in a small town dara'a where some school children wrote grafitti on the walls against the regime then had their fingers cut off The supports of the syrian regime globally that prop it up are what keeps it alive ... france did this in syria for too many decades CIA is just enforcer to the authoratarian capitalists and attacking the authoritarian capitalists where they live ... money ... comodification of life ... is a solution... ie boycott all things french etc but undercutting CIA by any means whatsoever ... finding all means ... any means is productive Basically the CIA is one small maggot of many maggots and just focusing on the surface parasite or maggot as THE ONE is inneffective besides the parasitic state lives in one and all and isnt just some outside force to be battled there are many fronts all around ... so we can pick up any one of them at any point in time and shove Wherever you are sitting on any given land mass your every action effects syria ... north korea ... washington dc ... that people dont understand that ... know that deeply is a direct action of the parasitic state on life forms On Oct 28, 2015 10:30 PM, "goran@gothic.com.au" wrote:

Blog by Adam Curtis, THE BABY AND THE BAATH WATER

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/d3921cac-2144-306a-9f6e-712c0c...

On 29/10/2015 12:09, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...

This is getting embarrassing for "the West" - the so called moral high ground of the West, never existed. Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed -after- Japan had surrendered, just that America insisted on humiliation of unconditional surrender.

http://russia-insider.com/en/documents-reveal-west-plotted-false-flag-justif...

...

" In 1957, it was PG-13 “border clashes”. Now we have “government chemical weapons attacks against orphans” "

I wonder where our CIA apologists are now ... Z

On 10/28/2015 08:19 PM, goran@gothic.com.au wrote:

Blog by Adam Curtis, THE BABY AND THE BAATH WATER

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/d3921cac-2144-306a-9f6e-712c0c...

Curtis is also responsible for "The Power Of Nightmares" BBC documentary. His hypothesis is the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, and the Neocons all have common roots in the lecture hall and philosophy of Leo Strauss.

THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES

Three part series I: Baby It's Cold Outside II: The Phantom Victory III: The Shadows In The Cave

Tuesday, 18 January, 2005 2320 GMT on BBC Two

Available @Archive.org: https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-Episode1BabyItsColdOutside

Should we be worried about the threat from organised terrorism or is it simply a phantom menace being used to stop society from falling apart?

In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares.

The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.

In a new series, the Power of Nightmares explores how the idea that we are threatened by a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion.

It is a myth that has spread unquestioned through politics, the security services and the international media.

At the heart of the story are two groups: the American neo-conservatives and the radical Islamists.

Both were idealists who were born out of the failure of the liberal dream to build a better world.

These two groups have changed the world but not in the way either intended.

Together they created today's nightmare vision of an organised terror network.

A fantasy that politicians then found restored their power and authority in a disillusioned age. Those with the darkest fears became the most powerful.

The rise of the politics of fear begins in 1949 with two men whose radical ideas would inspire the attack of 9/11 and influence the neo-conservative movement that dominates Washington.

Both these men believed that modern liberal freedoms were eroding the bonds that held society together.

The two movements they inspired set out, in their different ways, to rescue their societies from this decay. But in an age of growing disillusion with politics, the neo-conservatives turned to fear in order to pursue their vision.

They would create a hidden network of evil run by the Soviet Union that only they could see.

The Islamists were faced by the refusal of the masses to follow their dream and began to turn to terror to force the people to "see the truth"'.

The Power of Nightmares will be broadcast over three nights from Tuesday 18 to Thursday, 20 January, 2005 at 2320 GMT on BBC Two. The final part has been updated in the wake of the Law Lords ruling in December that detaining foreign terrorist suspects without trial was illegal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/programmes/3755686.stm

On 29/10/2015 12:09, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

...

This is getting embarrassing for "the West" - the so called moral high ground of the West, never existed. Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed -after- Japan had surrendered, just that America insisted on humiliation of unconditional surrender.

http://russia-insider.com/en/documents-reveal-west-plotted-false-flag-justif... " In 1957, it was PG-13 “border clashes”. Now we have “government chemical weapons attacks against orphans” "

I wonder where our CIA apologists are now ... Z