All this talk of Riseup being anti-capitalist and people being selective about their invites is rather amusing. Maybe people on this listserve are not aware that Riseup.net (along with LEAP) are listed as receiving over $250,000 USD from government funding. And that was only the funding which could be confirmed. The few public records I did receive are full of heavy redactions. Netherlands and Sweden still have classified documents, but refuse to release them. Along with some European governments, the US Department of State was also involved in this funding mechanism. I would really like Riseup.net to publicly say whether or not Riseup.net still receives government funding or support. Hopefully, Riseup.net will publicly disclose the funding it has received. Link to documentation (use search term "riseup") http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/02/Q1-DDP-2014.pdf
From: Rachael <ractack@mail.com>
All this talk of Riseup being anti-capitalist and people being selective about their invites is rather amusing.
I've long believed that people should stop using the term "capitalism" when they probably mean, "free market". "capitalism" might be the 1800 equivalent of "crowdfunding". But I think the issue is rarely from where the capital comes, but instead the freedom of participants in the market to act once the businesses begin operation. Jim Bell
Link to documentation (use search term "riseup") http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/02/Q1-DDP-2014.pdf
On Jul 14, 2017 11:53, "jim bell" <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote: I've long believed that people should stop using the term "capitalism" when they probably mean, "free market". "capitalism" might be the 1800 equivalent of "crowdfunding". I agree people should use the word "capitalism" more sparingly. However it's not because most people mean "free market" when they use the term. Rather it's because *some* people mean "free market", whatever *that* means. Some mean "the dominance of economy and society by mechanistic usury". Some mean "democracy", whatever *that* means. Some mean "American style police state tyranny". And some mean "the actually-existing socioeconomic system in America today". The profusion of definitions in use, and the sometimes fuzzy boundaries between them, make the word "capitalism" not very useful for communication without a lot of context.
From: Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta@gmail.com> On Jul 14, 2017 11:53, "jim bell" <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote: I've long believed that people should stop using the term "capitalism" when they probably mean, "free market". "capitalism" might be the 1800 equivalent of "crowdfunding".
I agree people should use the word "capitalism" more sparingly. However it's not because most people mean "free market" when they use the term. Rather it's because some people mean "free market", whatever that means. Some mean "the dominance of economy and society by mechanistic usury". Some mean "democracy", whatever that means. Some mean "American style police state tyranny". And some mean "the actually-existing socioeconomic system in America today". The profusion of definitions in use, and the sometimes fuzzy boundaries between them, make the word "capitalism" not very useful for communication without a lot of context. I agree with all of that. This amounts to a vague mish-mash of meanings, where the meanings themselves can be gravely in error. Yes, some people refer to the American system as "free market", which I think is laughably inaccurate! If anything, I think the reason that governments support Riseup (sorta behind the scenes) is actually to keep true "free markets" at bay. I have long believed that we would be much better off with a true, anarchistic free market (which some call "anarcho-capitalism") with what we currently call "government" dissolved. Jim Bell
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 05:34:14 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree with all of that. This amounts to a vague mish-mash of meanings, where the meanings themselves can be gravely in error. Yes, some people refer to the American system as "free market", which I think is laughably inaccurate!
Why? Is it because poor american corporations are being oppressed by the government? Like the supreme 'libertarian' 'thinker' ayn randroid taught?
If anything, I think the reason that governments support Riseup (sorta behind the scenes) is actually to keep true "free markets" at bay.
Isn't that the job of google, intel, and all the rest of american 'free enterrise'? In the grand scheme of things riseup is a nonentity - so how are they keeping 'free markets' at bay?
I have long believed that we would be much better off with a true, anarchistic free market (which some call "anarcho-capitalism") with what we currently call "government" dissolved. Jim Bell
Rachael:
All this talk of Riseup being anti-capitalist and people being selective about their invites is rather amusing.
Maybe people on this listserve are not aware that Riseup.net (along with LEAP) are listed as receiving over $250,000 USD from government funding. And that was only the funding which could be confirmed. The few public records I did receive are full of heavy redactions. Netherlands and Sweden still have classified documents, but refuse to release them. Along with some European governments, the US Department of State was also involved in this funding mechanism.
I would really like Riseup.net to publicly say whether or not Riseup.net still receives government funding or support. Hopefully, Riseup.net will publicly disclose the funding it has received.
Link to documentation (use search term "riseup") http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/02/Q1-DDP-2014.pdf
from Amazon as a charity to give to: Riseup Labs Change Location: Seattle, WA | Year Founded: 2005 Mission: Riseup Labs creates and disseminates educational materials associated with our software as well as other popular open source software initiatives. Riseup Labs adapts emerging internet communication technologies to the needs of individuals and organizations working for social justice.
On Jul 14, 2017, at 12:36 AM, Rachael <ractack@mail.com> wrote:
All this talk of Riseup being anti-capitalist and people being selective about their invites is rather amusing.
Maybe people on this listserve are not aware that Riseup.net (along with LEAP) are listed as receiving over $250,000 USD from government funding. And that was only the funding which could be confirmed. The few public records I did receive are full of heavy redactions. Netherlands and Sweden still have classified documents, but refuse to release them. Along with some European governments, the US Department of State was also involved in this funding mechanism.
I would really like Riseup.net to publicly say whether or not Riseup.net still receives government funding or support. Hopefully, Riseup.net will publicly disclose the funding it has received.
Link to documentation (use search term "riseup") http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/02/Q1-DDP-2014.pdf
This is why I feel it's a good idea to own your domain name, your own physical server, and run software you've configured yourself as much as possible - including your email server. Obviously having a colo'd mail server you maintain yourself doesn't solve everything - do you trust the data center? Don't forget anything sent plain text over the wire is liable for trivial interception by US/allied SIGINT apparatus... And there is some cost involved, although at least these costs are up front and don't involve fuck-knows-what happening with whatever private data you provided to google or yahoo (or riseup ;)
participants (6)
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James -
Jason McVetta -
jim bell -
John Newman -
juan -
Rachael