On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 10:31:26 +1000 jamesd@echeque.com wrote:

On 2020-08-23 03:35, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 04:50:25 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote:

...

www.Tesmanian.com: SpaceX is getting closer to offering Starlink Internet. https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-sats

Why don't you explain how that will affect human freedom?

The space internet will be controlled by Musk, while the ground internet is controlled by the state authorities

musk is just a figurehead and facade for NASA-NSA-jakobo-goldman-sachs and the-rest-of-govcorp. Ergo, 'his' subnet will be as restricted and toxic as the rest of the arpanet. And fully connected to it. also, the people on the ground are under 'jurisdiction' of different governments who get to decide what kind of radio equipment can be used. So you can put spy satellites that violate their 'airspace' but the satellites are useless for actual communication if you don't have ground equipment.

It will also pass through with a much shorter ping time, which makes teleconferencing more viable, thus enabling people in flyover country to teleconference, whereupon it becomes a lot easier for members of the elite to exercise power while in locations isolated from physical violence by other members of the elite. Antifa and BLM is not going to show up at your door, nor will the cops arrest you for suspected thought crime, if you are located at your hobby farm in Oklahoma. I expect massive relocation of members of the the elite to Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas.

you can live in a relatively remote and hard to access place and have a ground radio link to the closest ISP. You don't need satellites for that, I believe. Hell, you could even have some kind of meshnet not owned by govcorp...

This, of course, depends on Musk getting his satellite to satellite laser communications working, while at present they are not working. Also launching ten thousand satellites is going to need Starship, which at present keeps exploding on the launchpad, but Musk has a history of usually managing to fix such problems.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 01:38:16PM +1000, jamesd@echeque.com wrote:

On 2020-08-23 13:16, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 10:31:26 +1000 jamesd@echeque.com wrote:

...

On 2020-08-23 03:35, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 04:50:25 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote:

...

www.Tesmanian.com: SpaceX is getting closer to offering Starlink Internet. https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-sats

Why don't you explain how that will affect human freedom?

The space internet will be controlled by Musk, while the ground internet is controlled by the state authorities

...

musk is just a figurehead and facade for NASA-NSA-jakobo-goldman-sachs and the-rest-of-govcorp.

None of which were able to get a man to the space station and back, despite trying for many years.

True, Musk has no power. And I have no power. But if all goes according to plan, he will have power.

If Musk builds a space internet, he will have built a space based powerbase that is physically resistant to the control of existing states. If he settles Mars, the settlement will be physically resistant to the control of existing states.

In time, there will be corporations on the internet that derive their cohesion from a proof of stake blockchain, where instead of shares whose property rights are enforced by the state, and instead of the corporation being an entity that derives its one-ness, its corporate nature, from the identity bestowed by the state, there will be stake in the corporate blockchain, and oneness derived from the paxos algorithm enforced by cryptographic protocols.

What is "paxos algorithm"?

A proof of stake blockchain will be a sovereign corporation, and the stake is shares in the corporation, while existing corporations are creations of the sovereign. I look forward to sovereign corporations in space.

...

...

It will also pass through with a much shorter ping time, which makes teleconferencing more viable, thus enabling people in flyover country to teleconference, whereupon it becomes a lot easier for members of the elite to exercise power while in locations isolated from physical violence by other members of the elite. Antifa and BLM is not going to show up at your door, nor will the cops arrest you for suspected thought crime, if you are located at your hobby farm in Oklahoma. I expect massive relocation of members of the the elite to Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas.

...

you can live in a relatively remote and hard to access place and> have a ground radio link to the closest ISP.

Teleconferencing does not work very well, in large part because of the long ping time. And it works considerably worse for members of the elite because the main question that they are interested in is whom to believe, and what the other member of the elite is really up to.

Which is part of the reason why power tends to wind up concentrated in the centers of certain cities - which cities are becoming more dangerous as politics becomes more violent.

...

On 2020-08-23 13:16, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote:

...

musk is just a figurehead and facade for NASA-NSA-jakobo-goldman-sachs and the-rest-of-govcorp.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 01:38:16PM +1000, jamesd@echeque.com wrote:

...

None of which were able to get a man to the space station and back, despite trying for many years.

True, Musk has no power. And I have no power. But if all goes according to plan, he will have power.

If Musk builds a space internet, he will have built a space based powerbase that is physically resistant to the control of existing states. If he settles Mars, the settlement will be physically resistant to the control of existing states.

In time, there will be corporations on the internet that derive their cohesion from a proof of stake blockchain, where instead of shares whose property rights are enforced by the state, and instead of the corporation being an entity that derives its one-ness, its corporate nature, from the identity bestowed by the state, there will be stake in the corporate blockchain, and oneness derived from the paxos algorithm enforced by cryptographic protocols.

On 2020-08-23 14:37, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

What is "paxos algorithm"?

Suppose there are various computers dispersed over the internet, controlled by various people who usually cooperate, but do not all trust each other, nor always cooperate. And we want these computers to reach a single conclusion as to who owns what, who has obligations to whom, so that their owners can reach conclusions as to who is cooperating and who is defecting. Obviously the immediate case of concern in a proof of stake currency is a single accord as to which public keys control how much crypto currency. The problem of reaching a single accord on anything is equivalent reaching a single accord on the order of sql transactions. The byzantine paxos algorithm is an algorithm for taking vote among a centerless set of computers, some of which might well cheat, equivalent to taking a vote on a proposed block of sql transactions, so that everyone applies the same sql transactions in the same order (or an operation equivalent to applying a set of sql transactions). It turns out that without a single authoritative trusted central point for counting the vote, this is a very difficult and subtle problem. Were the owners of stake to vote directly, they would all have to have computers with high bandwidth connections that were almost always up, and always connected, which connections would reveal the owners of the stake. So I have proposed, (full white paper coming by and by, but it is getting mighty long and taking a while) a proof of stake currency where the secret keys controlling the stake is owned by the clients of the peers, and the peers vote. A client can move from one peer to another, or set up his own peer, perhaps with peer and client running on the same computer. If the government raids a big peer in a big computer center, it does not get any interesting secret keys, because the master key for that peer is probably written down on the margin of a bible on a bookshelf of someone on the other side of the world. This is equivalent to the corporate form: The peer computers are like the board, the client computers are like the shareholders. And a human whose the client program has the master key to a peer whose clients hold a lot of stake is equivalent to a human member of a human board of a human corporation.