On 07/13/2018 02:38 PM, Steven Schear wrote:

No problem. The elites always have their solutions: World War and survival bunkers.

And escape to space, and/or virtual reality in hardened server farms. Check out: _Diaspora_, by Greg Egan _The Last Trumpet Project_, by Kevin MacArdry https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/last_trumpet/LTP.pdf _Accelerando_, by Charles Stross http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando-... "Flower Prince" trilogy, by Hannu Rajaniemi

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 11:35 AM grarpamp wrote:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Zw0_4CH1A

Fucked 1.7 times over, and growing... https://www.overshootday.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot_(population)

On 07/13/2018 09:35 PM, juan wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:49:47 -0700 Mirimir wrote:

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On 07/13/2018 02:38 PM, Steven Schear wrote:

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No problem. The elites always have their solutions: World War and survival bunkers.

And escape to space, and/or virtual reality in hardened server farms.

It's funny how fucktards like mirimir think they can escape from their own fucktard selves.

Sure, but who's being the fucktard troll here? You do make some useful contributions, but for the most part you're just hateful and disgusting. And it get's boring, after a while.

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Check out:

_Diaspora_, by Greg Egan

_The Last Trumpet Project_, by Kevin MacArdry https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/last_trumpet/LTP.pdf

_Accelerando_, by Charles Stross http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando-...

"Flower Prince" trilogy, by Hannu Rajaniemi

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On Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 11:35 AM grarpamp wrote:

...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Zw0_4CH1A

Fucked 1.7 times over, and growing... https://www.overshootday.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot_(population)

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 10:43 rooty wrote:

-------- Original Message -------- On Jul 13, 2018, 9:54 PM, Mirimir < mirimir@riseup.net> wrote: On 07/13/2018 09:35 PM, juan wrote:

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On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:49:47 -0700 Mirimir wrote:

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On 07/13/2018 02:38 PM, Steven Schear wrote:

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No problem. The elites always have their solutions: World War and survival bunkers.

And escape to space, and/or virtual reality in hardened server farms.

It's funny how fucktards like mirimir think they can escape from their own fucktard selves.

Sure, but who's being the fucktard troll here?

Fascist this fascist that = boring. Then you got some dude wanting archive all this junk OMG

Yeah, I had to begin ignoring everything here months ago.

You do make some useful contributions, but for the most part you're just hateful and disgusting. And it get's boring, after a while.

Broken record. So much hate and ansgt... Like he's 14 and just got dumped.

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Check out:

_Diaspora_, by Greg Egan

_The Last Trumpet Project_, by Kevin MacArdry https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/last_trumpet/LTP.pdf

_Accelerando_, by Charles Stross

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando-...

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"Flower Prince" trilogy, by Hannu Rajaniemi

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On Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 11:35 AM grump wrote:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Zw0_4CH1A

Fucked 1.7 times over, and growing... https://www.overshootday.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot_(population)

On 07/14/2018 12:30 PM, juan wrote:

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It's funny how fucktards like mirimir think they can escape from their own fucktard selves. mirinir: Sure, but who's being the fucktard troll here?

troll? My remark is flawless. You think that political problems can be 'solved' by running away. There isn't any trolling on my part, just basic political philosophy that you can't grasp. So, you are a fucktard.

OK, maybe just poor reading comprehension, plus a tendency to fling shit ;) If you reread what I posted, in context -- and actually check out the novels that I cited -- you'll see that I explicitly _did not_ argue "that political problems can be 'solved' by running away". And in fact, that the same political problems show up in virtualities. Worse, even. _Accelerando_ and the "Flower Prince" trilogy both explore virtual dystopias. _Accelerando_ is especially dark. There's lots of running away in _Diaspora_, through multiple levels of reality, but in the end it's painted as pointless. I admit that _The Last Trumpet Project_ does feature hiding in virtuality, but eventually they come back to kill all the assholes.

ps: I wasnt expecting any answer from you. You should be ignoring me.

Thanks for the advice :) <SNIP>

On 07/14/2018 03:25 PM, juan wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 14:53:55 -0700 Mirimir wrote:

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OK, maybe just poor reading comprehension, plus a tendency to fling shit ;) If you reread what I posted, in context -- and actually check out the novels that I cited -- you'll see that I explicitly _did not_ argue "that political problems can be 'solved' by running away". And in fact, that the same political problems show up in virtualities. Worse, even.

_Accelerando_ and the "Flower Prince" trilogy both explore virtual dystopias. _Accelerando_ is especially dark. There's lots of running away in _Diaspora_, through multiple levels of reality, but in the end it's painted as pointless.

Oh, OK. I'll check those out then =)

As I recall, _Accelerando_ is unremittingly dark. Although one could say that the "Flower Prince" trilogy has a happy ending for some, everyone and everything else gets unhappened. It's a fun read, though.

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I admit that _The Last Trumpet Project_ does feature hiding in virtuality, but eventually they come back to kill all the assholes.

I remember you linked a novel a while back in which the good guys beat the statists by developing better 'technology', which is of course wishful thinking and laughable nonsense. I did read like 3/4 of it and it was entertaining, but really naive. I think it might have been that same trumpet project?

Yeah, that was probably it. In practice, statists will have the best technology. Because they have the most resources.

Anyway, I assumed that the other stuff you linked now was the same sort of utopian stuff. My mistake and I apologize.

I'm not really into utopian. Dystopian is more fun. If you enjoy fantasy, I highly recommend Joe Abercrombie's "The First Law" trilogy. It's rather a satire on "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy. Also Matthew Stover's "Caine" series. Caine basically channels Aleister Crowley ;)

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ps: I wasnt expecting any answer from you. You should be ignoring me.

Thanks for the advice :)

my pleasure

De nada :)

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<SNIP>

On 07/16/2018 06:53 AM, John Newman wrote:

On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 08:03:13PM -0700, Mirimir wrote:

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On 07/14/2018 03:25 PM, juan wrote:

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On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 14:53:55 -0700 Mirimir wrote:

<SNIP>

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_Accelerando_ and the "Flower Prince" trilogy both explore virtual dystopias. _Accelerando_ is especially dark. There's lots of running away in _Diaspora_, through multiple levels of reality, but in the end it's painted as pointless.

Oh, OK. I'll check those out then =)

As I recall, _Accelerando_ is unremittingly dark. Although one could say that the "Flower Prince" trilogy has a happy ending for some, everyone and everything else gets unhappened. It's a fun read, though.

Yeah, the brief "utopia" on Mars gets utterly destroyed (i think the whole planet gets destroyed), there is a war between like 7 people who control planet-sized constructs made of "computronium", all of them trying to accomplish the "Great Common Task" (which is uploading all sentient beings, with or without their consent as I recall), and all sorts of other dark shit in Hannu's stuff.

Yeah, Rajaniemi's "Flower Prince" trilogy is awesome. It doesn't have quite the visceral punch of Abercrombie's stuff. Or Morgan's stuff. Or Stover's Caine stuff. But damn, Jean le Flambeur is a trip. He's a riff on Arsène Lupin, Maurice Leblanc's gentleman thief. And actually, "he" is inaccurate. Because the novels feature several copies of him. One copy, Jean le Roi, is a distinct character. And at the start of _The Quantum Thief_, millions of copies are undergoing selection for cooperation ... | As always, before the warmind and I shoot each other, I try to | make small talk. | | “Prisons are always the same, don’t you think?” | | ... | | “Prisons are like airports used to be on Earth. No one wants to | be here. No one really lives here. We’re just passing through.” | | ... | | A fiery wink: the black pupil of its gun, flashing. My trigger | finger jerks. There are two thunderclaps. And a bullet in my head. | | You never get used to the feeling of hot metal, entering your | skull and exiting through the back of your head. It’s simulated | in glorious detail. A burning train through your forehead, a warm | spray of blood and brain on your shoulders and back, the sudden | chill—and finally, the black, when things stop. The Archons of | the Dilemma Prison want you to feel it. It’s educational. | | The Prison is all about education. And game theory: the | mathematics of rational decision-making. When you are an immortal | mind like the Archons, you have time to be obsessed with such | things. And it is just like the Sobornost – the upload collective | that rules the Inner Solar System—to put them in charge of their | prisons. And going back further, Jean le Flambeur is a synthetic construct, created by Sobornost Founder (one of seven) Joséphine Pellegrini, to serve her. But various copies of him have rebelled and escaped. I gather that she's a riff on Countess of Cagliostro, from Maurice Leblanc's novels. Gotta read those. Mieli, the other main character, also serves Joséphine Pellegrini. She seems extremely naive, albeit a fierce warrior. But there's much more to her than that. There's a very deep game, which I won't ruin for y'all.

Same with the Alistair Reynolds books I recommended - they are *not* utopian visions of the future, at all.

Thanks. I need more new stuff. I've reread Stover's Caine novels _many_ times. Because I love the action! And also because the plot (if you can call it that) is extremely convoluted and branched. It's vaguely similar to Heinlein's _All You Zombies_, but no where near as obvious.