Cryptocurrency: Voluntary Japan - Talks with Bitcoin.com re Bitcoin Cash BCH, Voluntaryism
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 16:48:03 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
did you watch that grarpamp? What's your take on ver arguing AGAINST privacy at the protocol level for cryptocurrencies?
take on ver arguing AGAINST privacy at the protocol level for cryptocurrencies?
Seems to be an ongoing debate about that in the cryptocurrency space... ie: whether selectable privacy, or privacy-only, would be advantage yielding faster take up and toehold to adoption thus introduction to voluntary themes, which would shift later on their own to privacy-only [1]. If you find other debate / interview / talks on the cryptocurrency privacy subject, please post them here for others. It could be that this question is evolving, that people may flip [again], ending up settling on privacy-only... many believed early on BTC could be used privately. Note the US exchange coinbase (and maybe others) does have Zcash ZEC pairings. So what are the statist plots there? There's probably still time in the race left to push all coins into having some privacy modes. You'd also have to study the adoption and rationale of ZEC and XMR and a few others closely. What is needed for sure also right now are TLS for all coins, select privacy modes in some or all, bulletproof anonymous exchanges / P2P DEX's, plausible deniability such as income generating apps / mixes / resource rental / compute nets, blockchains and clients that do not store anything but UTXO's, etc. Central Banker State Coin will certainly not be private, nor suit your privacy needs, at all. Build privacy into the emergent ecosystem from the start and drive adoption united, hard, and fast. Seems necessary to have if you expect to win the game. Public talking heads in the cryptocurrency space should have been talking privacy a long time ago. The void there makes them all look stupid. [1] Similar debate to the: Whether voting for Libertarian parties is faster, better, "play their own game against them" route, now today, adding more pressure from multiple directions, to whatever goal, than not voting at all and waiting for some kind of global awakening. See also: Free State Project. Either way you still have to introduce and educate a lot of people. The answer may be: Both, not Or. The list is here, you all talk and decide.
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 23:49:10 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
take on ver arguing AGAINST privacy at the protocol level for cryptocurrencies?
Seems to be an ongoing debate about that in the cryptocurrency space... ie: whether selectable privacy, or privacy-only, would be advantage yielding faster take up and toehold to adoption thus introduction to voluntary themes, which would shift later on their own to privacy-only [1].
Technically, anything can be debated. Doesn't mean all sides in a debate necessarily have value. In this case, the anti-privacy side is worthless. Good that you mention the so called 'libertarian' party. A perfect example of a complete failure, after almost 50 years of doing...the fuck are they even pretending to do? So after things like the 'libertarian' party and the interweb and its pipes with ZERO privacy at the protocol level one would expect that people like ver learned their lesson. It seems they didn't though.
It could be that this question is evolving, that people may flip [again], ending up settling on privacy-only... many believed early on BTC could be used privately.
well, btc could be used privately if the internet were not the biggest spy machine ever created. Although bitcoin doesn't have special mechanisms for privacy in the protocol, it doesn't have any mechanisms to identify users either. The privacy problems in bitcoin stem from the privacy problems on the interweb and the surveillance state.
Note the US exchange coinbase (and maybe others) does have Zcash ZEC pairings. So what are the statist plots there?
Ha. coin fucking base is one of the worst if not the worst cancer in the 'cryptocurrency space'. Coinbase's statist plot seems pretty obvious. https://cointelegraph.com/news/5-reasons-to-drop-coinbase-like-a-hot-potato-... coin fucking base was 'founded' by goldman sachs scum and is staffed by US govt criminals. https://blog.coinbase.com/kathryn-haun-joins-coinbase-board-of-directors-65b... "We are excited to announce former federal prosecutor [worthless cunt] has joined our parent company Board of Directors." " [worthless cunt] also held a significant role in the case of two federal agents’ role in the investigation into Silk Road."
See also: Free State Project.
another project that is going nowhere as far as I know.
Either way you still have to introduce and educate a lot of people. The answer may be: Both, not Or.
The list is here, you all talk and decide.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 12:32 AM juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
well, btc could be used privately if the internet were not the biggest spy machine ever created. Although bitcoin doesn't have special mechanisms for privacy in the protocol, it doesn't have any mechanisms to identify users either. The privacy problems in bitcoin stem from the privacy problems on the interweb and the surveillance state.
Two BTC wallets, Samourai and Stashcrypto, implement the BIP47 protocol for Payment Channels. They offer payments and communications between Alice and Bob which cannot observe by Eve.
Two BTC wallets, Samourai and Stashcrypto, implement the BIP47 protocol for Payment Channels. They offer payments and communications between Alice and Bob which cannot observe by Eve.
That would be these... https://samouraiwallet.com/ https://stashwalletapp.com/ https://billionapp.com/ https://github.com/OpenBitcoinPrivacyProject/bips/blob/master/bip-0047.media... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bip47+wallets
On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 07:49:43PM -0700, Steven Schear wrote:
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 12:32 AM juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
well, btc could be used privately if the internet were not the biggest spy machine ever created. Although bitcoin doesn't have special mechanisms for privacy in the protocol, it doesn't have any mechanisms to identify users either. The privacy problems in bitcoin stem from the privacy problems on the interweb and the surveillance state.
Two BTC wallets, Samourai and Stashcrypto, implement the BIP47 protocol for Payment Channels. They offer payments and communications between Alice and Bob which cannot observe by Eve.
"cannot be observed" - how does this square with the "public ledger"?
Technically, anything can be debated. Doesn't mean all sides in a debate necessarily have value. In this case, the anti-privacy side is worthless.
Then carry that message of worthlessness, out to the sheeple, and to the cryptocurrency privacy fakes at their conferences, twitters, etc.
''libertarian' party... 50 years... failure... the fuck are they even pretending to do?
What are they pretending to do? Not be governing you?
the interweb and its pipes with ZERO privacy at the protocol level one would expect that people like ver learned their lesson. It seems they didn't though.
Many in the cryptocurrency space are optimistic or unfamiliar with certain areas. Some being more philosophical inclined, some even admitting they are not technical, some more technical inclined, some even admitting lack of philosophy. Cryptocurrency conferences need to have serious tracks devoted to educating on both philosophy and developing real coin privacy. They need to take the lessons.
well, btc could be used privately if the internet were not the biggest spy machine ever created. Although bitcoin doesn't have special mechanisms for privacy in the protocol, it doesn't have any mechanisms to identify users either. The privacy problems in bitcoin stem from the privacy problems on the interweb and the surveillance state.
Govt spying surveilling on the net is one thing, yet those top secret datas are mostly kept at hand not dumped into the open market. Markets cooperating chain analysis tagging all known addresses particularly at corporate exchanges, retail, databrokers is another thing... and being run no different than the secret credit scoring advertising marketing buying selling sharing facebooking policing your soul on the backend.
Ha. coin fucking base is one of the worst if not the worst cancer in the 'cryptocurrency space'.
I meant Gemini has ZEC pairings now, Coinbase is expected to. Gemini is also now pumping their own centralized USDT-alike shitcoin called GUSD that all the retards are rushing in droves to accept. https://gemini.com/dollar/
Coinbase's statist plot seems pretty obvious.
What is any plausible statist control monitoring censorship plot point behind pairing ZEC which is currently thought to be untraceable when used off exchange in private mode? Even if future plan is to blocking all non-e2e-t2t paths at their gates, why be enabling ZEC? For weakening it via throwing internal data at analysis? Or is it that States and Corporations expect to use e2e-z2z for their own plots and are thus willing to accept sheeple's use of z? https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9s1y9z/serious_why_use_btc_... Fungibility is very important part of coin privacy too. There are big forces trying to develop systems of discrimination based on perceived taint. This is obvious by rhetoric, and by OTC desks offering fresh mined coins at a premium to entities with big bank, and even by some famous BTC devs proposing code architectures to censorship of addresses. Under those schemes that $20 apple pie you bought from your neighbor the quiet drug dealers kid at her unlicensed bake sale so that she could buy art supplies to make a save the whales activism poster for her grade school school project could lock and forfeit your account forever, as well as your entire next hop network, and so on out.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/5-reasons-to-drop-coinbase-like-a-hot-potato-... https://blog.coinbase.com/kathryn-haun-joins-coinbase-board-of-directors-65b...
"We are excited to announce former federal prosecutor [worthless cunt] has joined our parent company Board of Directors."
What do you expect US exchanges to be filled with, crypto anarchists, fighting tooth and nail to do the absolute minimum anti-privacy required to avoid govt shutdown, pouring all profits into pro-privacy lobbying and starting Voluntaryism? That's a long hard road to play. And even if so, it's only part of the route to the goal. Regardless, people should research all the exchanges Boards, Execs and Investors and publish it for all to see on some website / wiki. Which ones are actually doing anything for privacy, Voluntary activism, etc. Which ones are sellouts.
TLS for all coins, select privacy modes in some or all, bulletproof anonymous exchanges / P2P DEX's, plausible deniability such as income generating apps / mixes / resource rental / compute nets, blockchains and clients that do not store anything but UTXO's, etc.
Even anonymous markets just to sell boring household goods, property, tools and tech. Replace fucking Ebay. Get started somewhere.
See also: Free State Project.
another project that is going nowhere as far as I know.
They claim a growing number of seats but need to keep pushing the project and not fall into the trap. Most have run as Rep or Dem, either as a tactic, or they sold out.
The list is here, you all talk and decide.
https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/99qo6l/monero_vs_pivx_the_f... https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9kkhho/monthly_skeptics_dis... https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9olcgw/check_out_the_most_p... https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9seh9j/getmonero_funder_adm... https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrencies+CryptoCurrency/search?q=privacy+AND+zcash&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://coincenter.org/link/the-new-york-state-department-of-financial-servi...
participants (4)
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grarpamp -
juan -
Steven Schear -
Zenaan Harkness