Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al...
A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. I have 'on the ground' experience from a lifetime of hardcore activism from the lifelong POV of heretic outsider. I've seen this before. A lot. It's basically what "Vanguard orgs" do to un-pc offenders. You could say it's a vicious form of henpecking and it happens in EVERY organization. But believe me... it's the same tactic that scared the living shit out of the LAPD/SD when Chris Dorner did it. If you want Snowden, and you can't get Snowden, and you want Greenwald but... Go after their friends. Dorner wasn't killing cops. He was killing friends and relatives. It's COIN Strategic Hamlet tactic. Worst case, they think, Snowden grow old and sick and dies early worried and feeling guilty because he comes to belive he endangered friends. Like cults ... Like Voodoo... Scientology EXCELS at it. Bohemian Grove... Majick. They "Abandon care", but do different unto others. Get the picture? The people who do this shit are pure evil... I've seen that evil 'on the ground'. The "Red Squads" of the 60s did this shit. I was there... Nothing's changed except the medium and the rapidity with which rumors and innuendo spread... But the tactic? Timeless... Lots of links and embedded images of tweets etc in-post... Read online: http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-i... theindicter.com The Weaponising Of Social Part 1: The Crucifixion of IOError by The Indicter Thanks to a small group of supposed anonymity-protecting privacy activists thousands of people now know the name of Jacob Appelbaum’s fiancée`. Even those that didn’t want to. We found it out by reading an extremely controversial website launched a week ago, that had a few sparse accounts of some nasty sounding happenings allegedly involving Jacob, with promises of more to come. No one truly concerned with privacy issues should care if Jacob has a fiancée let alone who she is, out of respect for his right to a private life and because it is patently obvious that attacks on him shouldn’t extend to her. Her name was later removed after the bulk of the damage had been done, without any editorial admission that it had ever been there in the first place. Unfortunately, that simple yet far-reaching invasion of privacy, is only the tip of the iceberg. [Update 12/06/16: Detractors are claiming the above is factually incorrect as they say Appelbaum is no longer engaged. The source was the smear website itself, which named Appelbaum’s ‘partner’, then removed her name and called her his ‘fiancée’, and now implies past tense. IMO, who he is or isn’t engaged to is frankly his own business. The point stands.] Preamble In a strange paradox, Jacob Appelbaum’s accusers both want to deny any relevance between their accusations and him being a known target of the US government as a result of the nature of his work, while having the clearly stated aim of wanting to prevent him from being able to continue it. Even as they are being dwarfed, swept aside and forgotten in the controversy, the topics on which Jacob Appelbaum and WikiLeaks work are much larger and more important than any individual. Those who concertedly dedicate themselves to such causes are unjustly forced to quite literally risk our safety, our families, our livelihoods, our citizenships, our liberty and everything we own, in our fight to preserve our ideals and our planet. The high stakes in a situation like this demand more than knee-jerk reactions, hearsay, and because-all-my-friends-say, when one of us is attacked or discredited. They deserve the investment of time; of serious, weighty yet measured consideration; analysis; and investigation. All of the elements that should be prerequisite to forming any intellectual opinon, let alone one where reputations and potentially lives are at stake. But we are yet to see any of that, at least anything more in-depth than a series of personal statements via “Twitlonger”. Just a whole lot of uproar; a whole lot more silence; and a bunch of axe-grinding. With very little actual analysis, because the topic of rape is so taboo that most people are shit scared of approaching it objectively. As such, this post should be subtitled “We Owe IO More Than 600 Words”. Because we do. We owe him much, much more than that. We owe it to him and to our causes, to find out the truth. Preamble dispensed with, I’m going to give some historical context to what made me write this article and analyse the claims made on and by the anti-IO website. In Part 2 of this article, we will look into the main personalities that appear to be driving this, discuss some of the environmental factors affecting the response and get into the wider context, which is all but being ignored Lessons Long-Since Learned The website now being widely sourced as justification for dismantling Appelbaum’s career and reputation does as much to discredit itself as it does to discredit Jacob. That the name of the female closest to him was disclosed in a forum that claims to exist to protect women was not the first red flag. Several years ago, a situation unfolded where a prominent activist (Activist A) was privately accused of rape by another activist (Activist B). This was then broadcast far and wide through the creation of a Twitter account that purported to be Activist B talking directly and openly about her first hand experience of being raped by Activist A. Many fell for it, and instantaneously an online frenzy was being whisked up against Activist A. For all the same – on the surface – seemingly valid reasons that we see people turning on Jacob Appelbaum for now. However, when I read the tweets of the account calling for the persecution of Activist A, I innately knew that what I was reading was not the words of a rape survivor. It came across to me as someone trying to posture themselves as one, out of empathy and/or indignation, rather than legitimately recounting an actual firsthand memory of a personal experience. So I did the socially unacceptable but morally right thing and spoke out. While people were aghast that I dared to question a “victim” – the facade soon crumbled and it turned out that my instincts were absolutely correct. The account claiming to be a rape victim was not Activist B at all. It was Activist C, her boyfriend, who had (according to Activist B, without her knowledge) taken it upon himself to impersonate her and attack Activist A in public after she had raised issues in confidence. There had been some question of infidelity, she had privately claimed lack of consent, Activist C had decided that Activist A’s life should be ruined as a result, and gone public. Whether or not Activist A ever did in fact rape Activist B got lost in the controversy of Activist C’s foolish meddling in the entire situation. Activist A claimed no. Activist B claimed yes. Activist C permanently obscured the situation by his actions. So how was I able to immediately identify, on gut feeling, that this anonymous account claiming to be a rape victim was not a rape victim? And why did I risk my “social capital” to speak out on such a highly contentious topic? Because people who are not survivors of rape cannot competently impersonate survivors of rape. They think the act itself is the whole story but it is just a tiny fraction of it. So when they attempt to concoct the scenario, they always limit it to the specific event rather than the holistic experience, the emotional journey. Rape Testimony Real rape testimony is 20% what physically happened and 80% how it affected us. It is visceral. It is memories and shapes and impressions and images. It is sights and smells and feelings, a twisted nostalgia we would desperately like to free ourselves from but cannot ever. It is asymmetrical and it evolves. It unfolds. The expression of it is a cathartic, painful release but a necessary step in the healing. It is not a telegram. It is not a thematical construct with set form or submission rules. They are not a fixed length. Nor fixed sentence structures. They do not have a statistical linguistic pattern. They are not uniform. They ebb and flow in proportion to the victim’s telling. They sway and move, mobile in the outpouring of emotion, of grief. When multiple examples of rape testimonies are compared side by side, they don’t conform in any way save in their effective translation of trauma, of a raw and primal pain. So when I realised the extent to which the accounts on the anti-Jacob website do conform and began to note other anomalies, huge alarm bells started ringing. Speaking From Experience As someone intimately acquainted with the plight of survivors, you can feel inside you when something is just not right with a situation like this. As a survivor, my personal obligation to other victims and to the truth has led me to speak up several times in the past – even when it is utterly humiliating, damaging to my reputation or even outright dangerous to do so. This is not an expectation I have of others – I have the benefit of the passage of time, maturity, experience and healing – water under the bridge – that many others don’t. Thus I spoke out in an article addressing statements made by the Minister of Police and the grotesquely poor conduct of NZ cops in handling sexual assault including my own historical abduction and gang rape. I likewise spoke the difficult and humiliating truth against the notorious ‘FBI’ snitch Sabu when he assumed the identity of one of my friends in order to target me sexually, in an attempt to entrap me. I spoke out about my favourite publication in the world when a new staffer there published a ridiculous pile of rape apologist bullshit. I spoke out against the self-admitted serial pack rapists known as The RoastBusters who weren’t even so much as arrested after bragging about stupefying and pack-raping dozens of 13-16 year old girls. Then I spoke out against media’s irresponsible reporting on the issue. And again, when the Minister of Justice used the plight of the many Roastbusters victims who had received no justice whatsoever, in order to falsely justify the passage of anti-trolling legislation. Even though it triggered the hell out of me to do so, I attended protest events, supported movements, and covered live actions in support of survivors, and in defiance of the repressive tactics wielded by New Zealand’s blatantly corrupt and incompetent police forces, who so profoundly fail survivors, and the public. As faithfully as I spoke out in all those cases, so must I speak out too when I believe that rape testimony may be being falsely manufactured, or manipulated, or misrepresented, or used to serve the ulterior motives and agenda of someone(s) who may not be rape survivors at all. “Believe victims“, some people say. The key word is not believe. The key word is victims. Not “believe any two-bit twat(s) who impersonate survivors and/or edit rape testimony because they have something to gain by smearing someone all over the net, in the name of other victims.” Especially when in doing so, knowingly or not, those someone(s) are also serving the interests of The Empire and damaging movements that people pay dearly to create, build and sustain. (If you are in any doubt about this take note that among the first people gloating about Jacob Appelbaum’s perceived downfall was in fact, Sabu.) For The Empire, I can assure you, does not give the slightest flying shit about rape victims, unless they can be used to its advantage. On a daily basis, it perpetuates and facilitates mass rape all over the world, while expending tax dollars to cement and maintain all of the societal and environmental conditions that create rape culture. The double-edged sword of the taboo of rape was constantly wielded against Julian Assange and his supporters over the last five years, albeit with ever-dwindling effectiveness. Allegations of rape against information activists are a lose-lose situation for us but a ‘win’ for our enemies, and that is again apparent in Appelbaum’s case. The end result is a real-life example of why these types of accusations are such an efficient tool for those wishing to utterly devastate and incapacitate a perceived rival. It emboldens the targets enemies and silences their friends. It isolates them and eclipses all their prior undertakings. For all these reasons I cannot merely sit silent, or put out an ambiguous 600-word opinion piece sitting on a fence. Instead I did what I do best. I read, read, read, read and read more. Dug, investigated and analysed. The following, is my findings. More: http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-i...
Suzie Dawson is an awesome example of someone who has taken their own life experiences of pain, humiliation and presumably devastation, and become such a powerful voice for justice. Thanks for posting this Rayzer... important to get out this message. Regards, Zenaan On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 08:33:48PM -0700, Rayzer wrote:
A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. ...
Lots of links and embedded images of tweets etc in-post... Read online: http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-i...
theindicter.com
The Weaponising Of Social Part 1: The Crucifixion of IOError
by The Indicter
Thanks to a small group of supposed anonymity-protecting privacy activists thousands of people now know the name of Jacob Appelbaum’s fiancée`. Even those that didn’t want to.
We found it out by reading an extremely controversial website launched a week ago, that had a few sparse accounts of some nasty sounding happenings allegedly involving Jacob, with promises of more to come.
No one truly concerned with privacy issues should care if Jacob has a fiancée let alone who she is, out of respect for his right to a private life and because it is patently obvious that attacks on him shouldn’t extend to her.
Her name was later removed after the bulk of the damage had been done, without any editorial admission that it had ever been there in the first place.
Unfortunately, that simple yet far-reaching invasion of privacy, is only the tip of the iceberg.
[Update 12/06/16: Detractors are claiming the above is factually incorrect as they say Appelbaum is no longer engaged. The source was the smear website itself, which named Appelbaum’s ‘partner’, then removed her name and called her his ‘fiancée’, and now implies past tense. IMO, who he is or isn’t engaged to is frankly his own business. The point stands.]
Preamble
In a strange paradox, Jacob Appelbaum’s accusers both want to deny any relevance between their accusations and him being a known target of the US government as a result of the nature of his work, while having the clearly stated aim of wanting to prevent him from being able to continue it. ...
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:39:52 +1000 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
Suzie Dawson is an awesome example of someone who has taken their own life experiences of pain, humiliation and presumably devastation, and become such a powerful voice for justice.
Thanks for posting this Rayzer... important to get out this message.
What message. appelbaum is a corrupt piece of shit and he got what he deserves, regardless of where the blow came from. what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too.
what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda.
Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own truths. o
even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too.
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:02:49 +1000 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda.
Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to.
When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their heart.
Yeah, 100K per year should buy you a decent actor or marketing monkey. Lefty anarchist. LMAO.
I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees.
Appoelbaum is as corrupt as all his tor buddies are. Did you catch that little 'mistake' about EVEN having 'ex' CIA employees working for them? When was that? Oh that was more than a year ago. Did you learn that because appelbaum 'disclosed' it, more than a year ago? Nope, the corrupt fuck covered it up. Just like all the rest of stuff he covered up, and we'll never know about.
Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own truths.
Let me know when he speaks one single truth.
o
even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too.
when i have heard him speak i see a tweeked out liar he pulled out the battery of his phone as some big show that now the cia couldnt follow him or some weird shit >>>> sim card is detectible without power that shit aint heart On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda.
Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to.
When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees.
Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own truths. o
even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too.
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html The Tor Project Social Contract THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT At The Tor Project, we make tools that help promote and protect the essential human rights of people everywhere. We have a set of guiding principles that make that possible, but for a long time, those principles were more or less unspoken. In order to ensure that project members build a Tor that reflects the commitment to our ideals, we've taken a cue from our friends at Debian and written the Tor Social Contract -- the set of principles that show who we are and why we make Tor. Our social contract is a set of behaviors and goals: not just the promised results we want for our community, but how we achieve them. We want to grow Tor by supporting and advancing these guidelines in our Tor time, while taking care not to undermine them in the rest of our time. The principles can also be used to help recognize when people's actions or intents are hurting Tor. Some of these principles are established norms, things we've been doing every day for a long time, while others are more aspirational -- but all of them are values we want to live in public, and we hope it will make our future choices easier and more open. This social contract is just one of several documents that define our community standards, so if you're looking for things that aren't here (e.g., something that might be in a code of conduct) bear in mind that content might be in a different document. Social goals can be complex. If there is ever tension in the application of the following principles we will always strive to place highest priority on the safety and freedom of any who would use the fruits of our endeavors. The social contract can also help us work through such tensions -- for example, there are times when we might have a need to use tools that are not completely open (contradicting point 2) but opening them would undermine our users' safety (contradicting point 6). Using such a tool should be weighed against how much it's needed to make our technologies usable (point 1). And if we do use such a tool, we must be honest about its capabilities and limits (point 5). Tor is not just software, but a labor of love produced by an international community of people devoted to human rights. This social contract is a promise from our internal community to the rest of the world, affirming our commitment to our beliefs. We are excited to present it to you. 1. We advance human rights by creating and deploying usable anonymity and privacy technologies We believe that privacy, the free exchange of ideas, and access to information are essential to free societies. Through our community standards and the code we write, we provide tools that help all people protect and advance these rights. 2. Open and transparent research and tools are key to our success We are committed to transparency; therefore, everything we release is open and our development happens in the open. Whenever feasible, we will continue to make our source code, binaries, and claims about them open to independent verification. In the extremely rare cases where open development would undermine the security of our users, we will be especially vigilant in our peer review by project members. 3. Our tools are free to access, use, adapt, and distribute The more diverse our users, the less simply being a user of Tor implies about any user, so we aim to create tools that anyone can access and use. We do not restrict access to our tools unless it is for the security of all users, and we design, build, and deploy our tools without collecting identifiable information about our users. We expect the code and research we publish to be improved by many different people, and that is only possible if the tools are free of cost and free to use, copy, modify and redistribute. 4. We make Tor and related technologies ubiquitous through advocacy and education We are not just people who build software, but ambassadors for online freedom. We want everybody in the world to understand that their human rights, particularly of free speech, freedom to access information, and privacy, do not have to disappear when they use the internet, and we do this by teaching people why and how to use Tor. We are always working to make our tools both more secure and more usable, which is why we use our own tools and listen to user feedback. Our vision of a more free society will not be accomplished simply behind a computer screen, and so in addition to writing good code, we also prioritize community outreach and advocacy. 5. We are honest about the capabilities and limits of Tor and related technologies We never intentionally mislead our users nor misrepresent the capabilities of the tools, nor the potential risks associated with using them. Every user should be free to make an informed decision about whether they should use a particular tool and how they should use it. We are responsible for accurately reporting the state of our software, and we work diligently to keep our community informed through our various communication channels. 6. We will never willfully harm our users We take seriously the trust our users have placed in us. Not only will we always do our best to write good code, but it is imperative that we resist any pressure from adversaries who want to harm our users. We will never implement front-doors or back-doors into our projects. In our commitment to transparency, we are honest when we make errors, and we communicate with our users about our plans for improvement.
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html
The Tor Project Social Contract THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT
Why do you post that kind of garbage here grarpamp?
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html
The Tor Project Social Contract THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT
5. We are honest about the capabilities and limits of Tor and related technologies
fucking pieces of lying shit - that's what they are.
6. We will never willfully harm our users
and again. This is a really 'brand new' and impressive 'social contract' eh Cecilia?
On Jul 29, 2016 3:37 AM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a really 'brand new' and impressive 'social contract' eh
Cecilia? It's only a social contract, Juan. I didn't say it is or will be true. And you are sure, it isn't impressive. I am disappointed, but was interesting to know about its existence. You only can criticize what you know that exists, dear. Grarpamp was right sharing this kind of information here. :) PS: - Very late with answers, migraine, insomnia and really bad mood in this exact moment. Please, kick me with tenderness or I will write a fake statement, hahaha!! ;)
On Jul 29, 2016 5:29 AM, "Spencer" <spencerone@openmailbox.org> wrote:
Hi,
Cecilia Tanaka: migraine, insomnia, and really bad mood
All them carbs!
Already tried them. Apparently, carbs are yummy, but don't make miracles. Juan can call me 'mal cogida' too, hahaha!! ;D Had bad news and was banned in another list. Some people are not original, meh! :P Giving Jake any kind of public support means being excluded, banned, rejected, dumped, etc, etc. Always the same noisy drama, bah! ;P I am still the same person, doing and saying exactly the same things, but apparently, I am less charming now. Considering that, one week ago, I was considered 'the cutest person' in that group, my 'awesomeness' ended very fast, hahaha!!! ;)
On 07/29/2016 12:28 AM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html
The Tor Project Social Contract THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT
5. We are honest about the capabilities and limits of Tor and related technologies
fucking pieces of lying shit - that's what they are.
Given misleading bullshit currently on their website, I must agree :(
6. We will never willfully harm our users
and again.
Those are weasel words :( Is it "users", or "cannon fodder"? <SNIP>
Relationships Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5... Internal Complaint Review Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5... Harassment Prevention Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5... Employee Communications Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5...
i learned this in 2011 at ows from our security people that fucking knew what they were talking about but here: http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/07/02/snowden-on-wiretapping-put-your-cell-p... besides if he didnt want them to track him he wouldnt have the phone on him literally ... it was super bad performance art and indicated to me he had actually very little tech knowledge regarding activism and he was a lot into smoke and mirrors also i read andy's book and he talks about going to the middle east as an activists and its just a fucking joke ... pathetic ... its just gibberish ... i found it sad and i think its a fraudulent presentation which makes me question his character ... presenting about being an activist in a region for hype screams ethics violation X 100 he lacks intelligence On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 8:16 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/29/16, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
sim card is detectible without power
sauce plox.
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
On 07/29/2016 09:22 AM, Spencer wrote:
Hi,
Cari Machet: sim card is detectable without power
This does not seem physically possible, at least without super villain resources.
Wordlife, Spencer
I agree. They're like flash drives. RF inert... BUT: http://www.gemalto.com/techno/ota/ It appears the card needs to be in the phone for this to work, and I'm almost positive 'airline mode' would disable it, because the transmitter/receiver in the phone is disabled, because the CIA (or whomever) just doesn't have enough excuses if planes keep crashing into mountainsides due to Cellphone RF interfering with their electronic nav gear so the CIA can get the contact list and pussy pics from you sim card. Rr
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:22:32 -0700 Spencer <spencerone@openmailbox.org> wrote:
Hi,
Cari Machet: sim card is detectable without power
This does not seem physically possible, at least without super villain resources.
maybe ('new') sim cards have an RFID subsystem...? So they could be 'detectable' at some range...
Wordlife, Spencer
On 07/29/2016 05:51 PM, juan wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:22:32 -0700 Spencer <spencerone@openmailbox.org> wrote:
Hi,
Cari Machet: sim card is detectable without power
This does not seem physically possible, at least without super villain resources.
maybe ('new') sim cards have an RFID subsystem...? So they could be 'detectable' at some range...
RFID in SIM Card - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtlPOUi9rE Didn't watch. It's from the product's company though. A search on Google turns up lots more on the company. DDG not so much. Go search: MDT RFID Ps. You also have to realize that 'some range' isn't much range unless there's a power source. Beware that friendly stranger sitting next to you at the cafe'.
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 07:35:15AM +0300, Cari Machet wrote:
when i have heard him speak i see a tweeked out liar
he pulled out the battery of his phone as some big show that now the cia couldnt follow him or some weird shit >>>> sim card is detectible without power
that shit aint heart
You may be right - I've only seen a couple of youtubes. Notwithstanding even if Applebaum is a bad man, and or a lying CIA paid scumbag, the lynch mobbing INjustice he has received is absolutely deplorable, and must be denounced! I read a saying researching some law-related things a few weeks back, something like "the problem with defending 'human rights' is that most of the time we [lawyers] are defending low life scoundrels in the process". There are many anecdotes about Jacob Applebaum. Everyone is entitled to draw their own conclusions about his true character. His right to justice however, is as strong and as certain as the right any of us has to justice, regardless of his true character and nature and deeds. We must never precondition an individual human's absolute right to justice, and a just process of executing justice upon them, upon whether we personally consider that person to be "good" or "bad" or anywhere inbetween! We must not be distracted from this fundamental! It is any position we hold, or imply for that matter, that "that brown person over there in the middle east is bad, and my opinion is all that matters, outside of any just legal process" that leads to so-called "rational" people (100s and 1000s of them in the USA military), choosing to drone people to death, day in, and day out. The USA's daily extra-judicial killings must be stopped. We must start by acknowledging that "bad" people deserve the process of law as much as "good" people. Anything else is tyranny, sociopathy and ultimately war.
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda.
Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to.
When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees.
Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own truths. o
even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too.
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 07:38:13PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
We must never precondition an individual human's absolute right to justice, and a just process of executing justice upon them, upon whether we personally consider that person to be "good" or "bad" or anywhere inbetween!
We must not be distracted from this fundamental!
It is any position we hold, or imply for that matter, that "that brown person over there in the middle east is bad, and my opinion is all that matters, outside of any just legal process" that leads to so-called "rational" people (100s and 1000s of them in the USA military), choosing to drone people to death, day in, and day out.
The USA's daily extra-judicial killings must be stopped. We must start by acknowledging that "bad" people deserve the process of law as much as "good" people.
s/process of law/appropriate anarchic justice system/
Apparently ecstacy is big in Berlin ;). ( An amusing detail in one of the appelbaum break downs I read, or started to read, listed as evidence of... who the fuck knows? the tor Berliners rolling with each other and fucking each other non-stop? ) John On July 29, 2016 12:35:15 AM EDT, Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
when i have heard him speak i see a tweeked out liar
he pulled out the battery of his phone as some big show that now the cia couldnt follow him or some weird shit >>>> sim card is detectible without power
that shit aint heart
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda.
Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to.
When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees.
Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own truths. o
even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm,
but
it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too.
-- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
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Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited.
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
On 7/27/16, Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-i...
The follow on piece has been said to be insightful... http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-2-stomping-on-ioerrors... There's excellent historical and running coverage here, you can clone, contribute, and add any missing elements to it... https://github.com/Enegnei/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor/blob/master/JacobAppelbau... There does seem to be some muting of former tone in todays last post (which is notably closed for comment)... https://blog.torproject.org/blog/jacob-appelbaum-leaves-tor-project https://blog.torproject.org/blog/statement https://blog.torproject.org/blog/statement-0 You're probably right that history is likely to look poorly upon those who participated in this, even if only for process used, and may thus be likely to hold an ironic cloud of question / irrelavance over them, to include damping any would be global action / stage they might wish to participate in.
On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 08:33:48PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. ... Lots of links and embedded images of tweets etc in-post... Read online:
http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-i...
Oh YEAH! Thank you Rayzer!
Suzie Dawson has done a tremendous investigation and very broad cover of this smear campaign against Appelbaum/it's origin, falseness and mendacity. Zenaan Harkness
Suzie Dawson is an awesome example of someone who has taken their own life experiences of pain, humiliation and presumably devastation, and become such a powerful voice for justice.
Indeed, Zen.
You all already know my oppinion about this subject. I love and trust Jake, and I signed this manifest as a lawyer, not as her friend. https://ourresponse.org/
we know that there are struggles around sexism.
We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not destroy
sexism? What? the movement What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists?
there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism
Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this...
we know that there are struggles around sexism.
sexism? What?
We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not destroy
On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote: the movement
What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists?
there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism
Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled
objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this... Juan, I love you, but you are very 'mal cogido' and need chocolate desperately, hunfs! You know I don't respect men with more premenstrual tension than me, ugh! :P Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not a feminazi. If I was a feminazi, I would pretend being a victim right now, making lots of drama, writing fake statements about how much you, bad bad Juan, make me feel horrible because I am a poor and fragile little girl and I need the group's protection, oooh... Poor me! Someone, please, help me! When it is convenient, I am not able of doing anything by mylself, in special without spread all the drama and hate in a twitter timeline or stupid Facebook posts! :'( I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan. Same rights, dear. It's more fun and interesting being a girl and, as said before, I can do the same things than you, but using make-up, dress and high heels. And lots of pearls, oink oink! :D Do you remember when those "victims" wrote that some women were using their sexuality to attack other women? Ah! When they are supposedly raped, Jake is guilty. When I am raped and tell publicly what means being a real victim, I am using my sexuality against other women. Do you understand the difference? I do not. The people who signed this petition believe in Justice, in never using sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process. Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :*
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:54:44 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
we know that there are struggles around sexism.
sexism? What?
We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not destroy
On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote: the movement
What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists?
there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism
Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled
objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this...
Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not a feminazi.
But that doesn't prevent you from working with feminanzis, apparentely...
I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan.
You shouldn't be playing feminazi games then. Regardless my comments are about 'ourresponse.org', not you.
The people who signed this petition believe in Justice,
False. They believe in 'sexism' and the they are corrupt supporters of the pentagon's 'tor project'. If they believed in 'justice' they would never support a guy who gets 100K per year from the US state while pretending to be an 'anarchist'. What kind of fucking game is that. But if you want to be part of the group that believes in 'sexism' and supports garbage like the tor project fine, don't complain if you get called out though.
in never using sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process.
Only feminazis believe in 'sexism'.
Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :*
Yeah.
On Jul 28, 2016 6:16 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
But that doesn't prevent you from working with feminanzis,
apparentely... Oh, Juan... I am a lawyer. I work with all kinds of monsters, like other jurists, politicals, feminazis, etc. I wanted to work with pokemons or dragons and unicorns, but it's what I have in the moment! :P
You shouldn't be playing feminazi games then. Regardless my
comments are about 'ourresponse.org', not you. Oh, sorry for my ego trip, hihi! :)
But if you want to be part of the group that believes in 'sexism'
and supports garbage like the tor project fine, don't complain if you get called out though. Juan, I am not playing a game. I can't say the same about all the "players" of these stories about the Tor Project. It's a bad soap opera, with bad actors. I can answer strictly for me and about me, in this case. :-/
Only feminazis believe in 'sexism'.
Hmm... Not exactly, dear. I have a vagina, Juan. It's natural for me believe in sexism, because I live the sexism all the days. Theoretically, I should be considered an equal, but the world doesn't work this way. And it becomes even worse when bad people hide themselves behind politically correct lies in a hypocritical society.
Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :*
Yeah.
Hum, I will need chocolate too! :-/
On Jul 28, 2016 6:47 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 28, 2016 6:16 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :*
Yeah.
Hum, I will need chocolate too! :-/
It's OT in this thread, but we all will need more chocolate, Juan dear. Meh! :( < https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/new-us-cyber-security-policy-solidifies-fbi...
< https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/fbi-director-speaks-at-cyber-security-gathe...
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:47:19 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
Only feminazis believe in 'sexism'.
Hmm... Not exactly, dear. I have a vagina, Juan.
So it turns out that men and women ARE different? Now that's a shocking revelation...
It's natural for me believe in sexism, because I live the sexism all the days. Theoretically, I should be considered an equal,
An equal to what/to whom? All people are different in various ways. Are you talking about equality before the law?(which logically entails anarchism btw) Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't agree with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak.
but the world doesn't work this way. And it becomes even worse when bad people hide themselves behind politically correct lies in a hypocritical society.
Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :*
Yeah.
Hum, I will need chocolate too! :-/
On 07/29/2016 05:31 PM, juan, the Anti-PC-Police wrote:
Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't agree with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak.
Still fascism attempting to act like it has manners.... I "Suggest" other people not respond to what wording pleases you... "Anarchist". Rr "I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." ~RW Emerson
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 07:21:43PM -0700, Rayzer wrote:
On 07/29/2016 05:31 PM, juan, the Anti-PC-Police wrote:
Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't agree with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak.
Still fascism attempting to act like it has manners....
I "Suggest" other people not respond to what wording pleases you... "Anarchist".
Rr
"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." ~RW Emerson
Everything depends on context. We are in a purportedly anarchist email list, and it is conceivably useful to try to shared meanings with our words. So, useful can be to inquisition one another as to true meaning and intention. I "Suggest" taking the suggestions of others as by default having good intention regards communication. You are of course free to plonk :)
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:21:43 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 07/29/2016 05:31 PM, juan, the Anti-PC-Police wrote:
Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't agree with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak.
Still fascism attempting to act like it has manners....
rayzer, I know that you are the typical american 'lefty' fascist. I don't care if you think you have 'manners' or not. now go suck schneiers cock. and some feminazi cock too!
I "Suggest" other people not respond to what wording pleases you... "Anarchist".
Rr
"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." ~RW Emerson
Muuuaaah! :* My dear Rayzer, thank you a lot for caring about me, but I will answer to Juan. I like him very much. He has lots of patience with me and is always teaching and explaining me several things. He is nice and feels pity when I don't understand bad words, wordplays and concepts of anarchism. And I do love to annoy him, hihi! ;) 'Mal cogida' is a very very very bad word in Spanish, which he teached me. I like him enough to say that he is the only guy in the world who can call me 'mal cogida' without being kicked right in the balls with all my strenght, hihi! :) Juan dear, sorry, I will answer to your message, but a bit later. Now I am very busy, burning all my bras because they are oppressing my breasts! :P Nah, it's a joke. Cute bras are very expensive, hihi! ;) Talking seriously, I am really busy, need to finish a lot of crazy stuff and was stupid enough to delete the draft of my answer about sexism when was distracted, d'oh! :P Sorry, I won't write about it again right now. It's a boring theme. Talk to you soon! Kisses, take care and eat chocolate! :*
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 03:22:34 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka <cecilia.tanaka@gmail.com> wrote:
'Mal cogida' is a very very very bad word in Spanish, which he teached me. I like him enough to say that he is the only guy in the world who can call me 'mal cogida' without being kicked right in the balls with all my strenght, hihi! :)
So, for people who don't speak spanish : "mal cogida/o" roughly means "not well fucked", and the idea is that a person who doesn't have enough sex is whinny and grumpy. Is there an equivalent english word/expression? (ps: Cecilia, I would never dare to call you mal cogida =P )
On Jul 31, 2016 8:28 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
So, for people who don't speak spanish : "mal cogida/o" roughly
means "not well fucked", and the idea is that a person who doesn't have enough sex is whinny and grumpy. Is there an equivalent english word/expression? I would like to learn it in English too, please. "Mal cogida/o" is a very funny expression and we have two versions of this in Portuguese, one more 'romantical' ("not well loved") and other exactly like the 'rough' version ("not well f...ed"). There are versions in Italian, including some dialets, too! :)
(ps: Cecilia, I would never dare to call you mal cogida =P )
Nah, I swear I don't care, Juan. You can call me 'mal cogida' all the times you want, because I probably will call you 'mal cogido' a lot of times in the future yet, hahaha!! ;D We know it isn't true, dear. Our governments fuck us _very well_ all the days, with no lube, no tenderness and no orgasms, uh! :(( I am late with a lot of private and public answers. Uff... A bit more of time, please. :(
Since the Federal government finances Tor, it is able to influence its development; specifically, the lack of improvements over time to include features such as dummy traffic. Now, we are hearing that the Clinton Foundation was accepting money from Russian sources during the "Russian Reset" a few years ago. Jim Bell http://nypost.com/2016/07/31/report-raises-questions-about-clinton-cash-from... "There’s more “Clinton Cash” trouble for Hillary.""A report out Monday, “From Russia With Money — Hillary Clinton, the Russian Reset and Cronyism,” raises serious questions about the cash connections between the Clintons and participants in the State Department’s failed five-year effort to improve, or “reset,” US-Russia relations during Hillary’s reign as secretary of state."Key players in a main component of the reset — a Moscow-based, Silicon Valley-styled campus for developing biomed, space, nuclear and IT technologies called “Skolkovo” — poured tens of millions of dollars into the Clinton Foundation, the report by journalist Peter Schweizer alleges."As the Obama administration’s top diplomat, Hillary Clinton was at the center of US efforts on the reset in general and Skolkovo in particular, Schweizer argues."Yet, “Of the 28 US, European and Russian companies that participated in Skolkovo, 17 of them were Clinton Foundation donors” or sponsored speeches by former President Bill Clinton, Schweizer told The Post.“It raises the question — do you need to pay money to sit at the table?”"In one example cited by Schweizer, Skolkovo Foundation member and then-Cisco CEO John Chambers donated between $1 million and $5 million in personal and corporate cash to the Clinton Foundation, the report says."But Skolkovo wound up making America less safe, Schweizer argues, because it shared advanced US technology that Russia can develop for both civilian and military applications, a concern raised already by Army and FBI officials.[end of portion quoted]
Hi,
jim bell: the lack of improvements over time
This seems to stem more from a misplaced understanding of what design is, on the developers side, since non-protocol improvements get ignored, too. Wordlife, Spencer
On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 06:51:03PM -0700, Spencer wrote:
Hi,
jim bell: the lack of improvements over time
This seems to stem more from a misplaced understanding of what design is, on the developers side, since non-protocol improvements get ignored, too.
They have explicitly stated that certain features, including chaff fill packets at the protocol layer, have been not granted funding. I have suggested a failure to "tweak" their grant proposals/ begging, but in that case when the tweak was discovered by the funders, bad faith would have been shown to the superiors. Witness also the subtly extreme rebukes against anyone who suggests using bittorrent over Tor - not by the head honcho email addys, but such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response. Everyone is of course free to draw conclusions assuming good faith by all players to the greatest extent delusionable.
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 12:46:48 +1000 Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 06:51:03PM -0700, Spencer wrote:
Hi,
jim bell: the lack of improvements over time
This seems to stem more from a misplaced understanding of what design is, on the developers side, since non-protocol improvements get ignored, too.
They have explicitly stated that certain features, including chaff fill packets at the protocol layer, have been not granted funding.
Actually what I think I got from scumbag supreme syverson is that any improvements that can affect the alleged 'low latency' of the network gets ignored because 'low latency' is the only thing he cares about. Too bad I didn't get to point out that the reason they want low latency is to be able to control drones...The kind of drones syverson and his supporters use to murder brown children for fun. Anyway, the fact that the 'hacker' and/or 'cypherpunk' 'communities' are almost fully coopted by the US government is the first problem that should be addressed, before bothering with any technicalities. We are still wating for troll rysiek to comment on the current tor developments...unsurprinsigly.
I have suggested a failure to "tweak" their grant proposals/ begging, but in that case when the tweak was discovered by the funders, bad faith would have been shown to the superiors.
Witness also the subtly extreme rebukes against anyone who suggests using bittorrent over Tor - not by the head honcho email addys, but such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response.
Everyone is of course free to draw conclusions assuming good faith by all players to the greatest extent delusionable.
lolol =)
From: Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 06:51:03PM -0700, Spencer wrote:>> >jim bell:
the lack of improvements over time
This seems to stem more from a misplaced understanding of what design is, on the developers side, since non-protocol improvements get ignored, too. They have explicitly stated that certain features, including chaff fill packets at the protocol layer, have been not granted funding. It occurs to me that this may reflect their misunderstanding of the process. (Misunderstandingby sympathetic employees of the Tor project., or possibly they were misled.) I have no doubt that Congress would be capable of writing a funding bill for Tor thatis sufficiently specific and detailed to absolutely prohibit any improvements toTor. However, I strongly doubt that the funding is limited in that way. Rather, I suspect that the funding doesn't explicitly state within the grant of funding that cites chaff fill, etc. is covered. If the Executive branch WANTED to do those projects, theywould simply direct some of their funding to those projects. Instead, I think the higher-upsmay be deliberately misleading the lower-level people about what they could do,if they decided to do it. I see that quite recently, Congress has asked them to find out ways to prevent "bad people"from using Tor. (Probably without defining the term "bad people" sufficiently. Maybe we are all, automatically, "bad people.") https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjd17KCqqTOAhUQz2MKHZXPByMQFggeMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.deepdotweb.com%2F2016%2F07%2F13%2Fsenate-funding-bill-asks-ways-stop-bad-people-using-tor%2F&usg=AFQjCNEnkvhs7R-alh5rfl3oUrB0vykdZw&sig2=LKEkgB5zBPHVAEEN9iVURA Notice that the goal is very poorly defined, so the task is inherently vague and the solution will be similarly vague and imprecise, providing much cover for the entire project. Perhaps the solution will be that the Tor project team will study how to insert "anti-bad-people"chaff into the Tor streams, increase the number of hops (more to confuse the "bad people"; they confuse the hell out of me!), etc. Eventually, they will have to sadly announce that they haven't yet fully succeeded in preventing"bad people" from using Tor, but they HAVE greatly improved security in various ways. Jim Bell
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 04:00:12 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps the solution will be that the Tor project team will study how to insert "anti-bad-people"chaff into the Tor streams, increase the number of hops
The number of hops is irrelevant because the tor network fails 'at the edges'. It doesn't matter how many times you bounce stuff inside the network since the traffic is 'correlated' when it enters/leaves the network.
(more to confuse the "bad people"; they confuse the hell out of me!), etc. Eventually, they will have to sadly announce that they haven't yet fully succeeded in preventing"bad people" from using Tor, but they HAVE greatly improved security in various ways.
What makes you think that military contractors for the US military(i.e. tor) have any interest in improving the security of the enemies of the US gov't/military? Tor works exactly as designed. It is a 'honeypot'. Jim Bell
From: juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Pay for Play, Influence Peddling, Tor and Hillary/Russia On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 04:00:12 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps the solution will be that the Tor project team will study how to insert "anti-bad-people"chaff into the Tor streams, increase the number of hops
> The number of hops is irrelevant because the tor network fails > 'at the edges'. It doesn't matter how many times you bounce > stuff inside the network since the traffic is 'correlated' when > it enters/leaves the network. I wish I knew far more about Tor. But it seems to me that you are describing one kind of attack, one that would be effective against a site sending/receiving a large number of packets. Yes, that's significant, but I think if the sender tendedto limit the packets, it would be much harder to correlate in the way you describe. Maybe others who know more will contribute a comment.I think people would like to guard against the possibility that these transfer siteswere somehow malicious, collecting data for correlations. Having two transfersites rather than one would make the process less susceptible to that weakness.
(more to confuse the "bad people"; they confuse the hell out of me!), etc. Eventually, they will have to sadly announce that they haven't yet fully succeeded in preventing"bad people" from using Tor, but they HAVE greatly improved security in various ways.
> What makes you think that military contractors for the US > military(i.e. tor) have any interest in improving the security > of the enemies of the US gov't/military? > Tor works exactly as designed. It is a 'honeypot'. PGP 1.0 also worked exactly as designed. It was limited to keylengths of 1024 bits,as I recall, which no doubt Phil Zimmerman considered sufficient for a first attempt.. Eventually it was considered by others desireable to issue revisions allowing much-longer keylengths. Does anybody claim that Zimmerman was intent on making ahoney-pot? Tor was/is a good start. But it nevertheless should be improved Jim Bell
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 05:21:06 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
PGP 1.0 also worked exactly as designed. It was limited to keylengths of 1024 bits,as I recall, which no doubt Phil Zimmerman considered sufficient for a first attempt.. Eventually it was considered by others desireable to issue revisions allowing much-longer keylengths.
25 years ago when pgp was released a 1024 bits key seemed reasonable.
Does anybody claim that Zimmerman was intent on making ahoney-pot?
Zimmerman was never a US military contractor as far as I know and he didn't write pgp for the US military. Quite the contrary, he was threatened by his government because of some 'export regulations' bullshit.
Tor was/is a good start. But it nevertheless should be improved
You did not address my point =) Why would the US military do anything that goes against their interests. The idea is absurd from a 'theoretical point of view, and, as it's to be expected, real world evidence corroborates the theory. Have you looked into things like maidsafe? Their funding at least seems a bit more in line with libertarian and cypherpunks principles.
Hi,
juan: maidsafe
"joins together the spare computing capacity of all SAFE users, creating a global network; pays in coin" VM and sandbox vulnerabilities sand out but it seems cool. There were some mesh groups here in the snow but haven't heard much in a while. Wordlife, Spencer
On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 03:29:14AM -0300, juan wrote:
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 05:21:06 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
PGP 1.0 also worked exactly as designed. It was limited to keylengths of 1024 bits,as I recall, which no doubt Phil Zimmerman considered sufficient for a first attempt.. Eventually it was considered by others desireable to issue revisions allowing much-longer keylengths.
25 years ago when pgp was released a 1024 bits key seemed reasonable.
Strongly disagree. Allowing longer keys doesn't hurt, except for more resources (and possibly false sense of security). History shows that in crypto what _seems_ true might not be. Very large upper bound is reasonable for DOS protection. Even very fast algorithms take prohibitively long time on sufficiently large input. I suspect building 1024/2048 qubit quantum computer is much easier that building 100K qubit one.
On 08/02/2016 09:16 PM, juan wrote:
Tor works exactly as designed. It is a 'honeypot'.
Prove intent if you're going to make that claim. (Crickets chirping...) It's a FLAG YOU WAVE that lets them 'kettle' you into a honeypot if your security is lax. Which is why I say we need millions of "flag wavers" to assist in the obscuring process. No matter the technology. No matter the code. If you are the only person using it and the government, for whatever reason doesn't want you to, you're a dead duck eventually. Rr
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 04:00:12 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps the solution will be that the Tor project team will study how to insert "anti-bad-people"chaff into the Tor streams, increase the number of hops The number of hops is irrelevant because the tor network fails 'at the edges'. It doesn't matter how many times you bounce stuff inside the network since the traffic is 'correlated' when it enters/leaves the network.
(more to confuse the "bad people"; they confuse the hell out of me!), etc. Eventually, they will have to sadly announce that they haven't yet fully succeeded in preventing"bad people" from using Tor, but they HAVE greatly improved security in various ways.
What makes you think that military contractors for the US military(i.e. tor) have any interest in improving the security of the enemies of the US gov't/military?
Tor works exactly as designed. It is a 'honeypot'.
Jim Bell
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 07:52:40 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/02/2016 09:16 PM, juan wrote:
Tor works exactly as designed. It is a 'honeypot'.
Prove intent if you're going to make that claim.
I don't need to prove the intent of the US militaty. Even reading a couple of newspapers would 'prove' it. Onyl a worthless scumbag like you would doubt the intent of the US military *and their contractors*.
(Crickets chirping...)
Are you hearing stuff inside your head? Well, considering that you can't even read your name, that's not surprising.
It's a FLAG YOU WAVE that lets them 'kettle' you into a honeypot if your security is lax.
Which is why I say we need millions of "flag wavers" to assist in the obscuring process.
No matter the technology. No matter the code. If you are the only person using it and the government, for whatever reason doesn't want you to, you're a dead duck eventually.
Rr
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 04:00:12 +0000 (UTC) jim bell <jdb10987@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps the solution will be that the Tor project team will study how to insert "anti-bad-people"chaff into the Tor streams, increase the number of hops The number of hops is irrelevant because the tor network fails 'at the edges'. It doesn't matter how many times you bounce stuff inside the network since the traffic is 'correlated' when it enters/leaves the network.
(more to confuse the "bad people"; they confuse the hell out of me!), etc. Eventually, they will have to sadly announce that they haven't yet fully succeeded in preventing"bad people" from using Tor, but they HAVE greatly improved security in various ways.
What makes you think that military contractors for the US military(i.e. tor) have any interest in improving the security of the enemies of the US gov't/military?
Tor works exactly as designed. It is a 'honeypot'.
Jim Bell
On 08/02/2016 09:00 PM, jim bell wrote:
“…the committee requires that spend plans submitted by the Department of State and BBG pursuant to section 7078(c) of the act include a description of safeguards to ensure that circumvention technologies are not used for illicit purposes, such as coordinating terrorist activities or online sexual exploitation of children,”
I think that's pretty specific about what they want, and broad about the technology... "circumvention technologies". If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things and it wouldn't be secret or underhanded (which is why I never aspired to that sort of position... my underhand toss is lousy), but unless there's something in the full bill in addition to that, it doesn't require deprecation of existing code in the product. Because those things were already paid for and done. It does put the product at a disadvantage against software meant to undo tor's security in the long run however, and government excel at doing things that have their effect in 'the long run'. Rr
*From:* Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 06:51:03PM -0700, Spencer wrote:
jim bell: the lack of improvements over time
This seems to stem more from a misplaced understanding of what design is, on the developers side, since non-protocol improvements get ignored, too.
They have explicitly stated that certain features, including chaff fill packets at the protocol layer, have been not granted funding.
It occurs to me that this may reflect their misunderstanding of the process. (Misunderstanding by sympathetic employees of the Tor project., or possibly they were misled.) I have no doubt that Congress would be capable of writing a funding bill for Tor that is sufficiently specific and detailed to absolutely prohibit any improvements to Tor. However, I strongly doubt that the funding is limited in that way.
Rather, I suspect that the funding doesn't explicitly state within the grant of funding that cites chaff fill, etc. is covered. If the Executive branch WANTED to do those projects, they would simply direct some of their funding to those projects. Instead, I think the higher-ups may be deliberately misleading the lower-level people about what they could do, if they decided to do it.
I see that quite recently, Congress has asked them to find out ways to prevent "bad people" from using Tor. (Probably without defining the term "bad people" sufficiently. Maybe we are all, automatically, "bad people.")
Notice that the goal is very poorly defined, so the task is inherently vague and the solution will be similarly vague and imprecise, providing much cover for the entire project.
“…the committee requires that spend plans submitted by the Department of State and BBG pursuant to section 7078(c) of the act include a description of safeguards to ensure that circumvention technologies are not used for illicit purposes, such as coordinating terrorist activities or online sexual exploitation of children,”
I think that's pretty specific and If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things, but unless there's something in the full bill in addition to that, it doesn't require deprecation of existing code in the product. Because those things were already paid for and done. Rr
Perhaps the solution will be that the Tor project team will study how to insert "anti-bad-people" chaff into the Tor streams, increase the number of hops (more to confuse the "bad people"; they confuse the hell out of me!), etc. Eventually, they will have to sadly announce that they haven't yet fully succeeded in preventing "bad people" from using Tor, but they HAVE greatly improved security in various ways.
Jim Bell
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 07:45:11 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/02/2016 09:00 PM, jim bell wrote:
“…the committee requires that spend plans submitted by the Department of State and BBG pursuant to section 7078(c) of the act include a description of safeguards to ensure that circumvention technologies are not used for illicit purposes, such as coordinating terrorist activities or online sexual exploitation of children,”
If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things
Spoken like a true americunt right-winger rayzer. Hardly surprising, no? So you are not only admiting tha you are a right winger, you are a highly stupid right winger who's openly admiting that 'anonimity' software 'should' be sabotaged.
On 08/03/2016 05:09 PM, juan quoted me saying: If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things Or else I wouldn't be doing the job right schmuck. I also have noted that I'd NEVER be doing a job like that:
(which is why I never aspired to that sort of position... my underhand toss is lousy),
Thanks for sharing... Troll. Rr
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 07:45:11 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/02/2016 09:00 PM, jim bell wrote:
“…the committee requires that spend plans submitted by the Department of State and BBG pursuant to section 7078(c) of the act include a description of safeguards to ensure that circumvention technologies are not used for illicit purposes, such as coordinating terrorist activities or online sexual exploitation of children,” If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things
Spoken like a true americunt right-winger rayzer. Hardly surprising, no?
So you are not only admiting tha you are a right winger, you are a highly stupid right winger who's openly admiting that 'anonimity' software 'should' be sabotaged.
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 18:29:32 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/03/2016 05:09 PM, juan quoted me saying:
If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things
Or else I wouldn't be doing the job right schmuck. I also have noted that I'd NEVER be doing a job like that:
(which is why I never aspired to that sort of position... my underhand toss is lousy),
Thanks for sharing... Troll.
Your comment is rather ambiguous. What's your point then? Are you finally admiting that the tor project is even more of a joke than it already was, now featuring built-in-censorship (TM)? Or what.
Rr
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 07:45:11 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/02/2016 09:00 PM, jim bell wrote:
“…the committee requires that spend plans submitted by the Department of State and BBG pursuant to section 7078(c) of the act include a description of safeguards to ensure that circumvention technologies are not used for illicit purposes, such as coordinating terrorist activities or online sexual exploitation of children,” If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things
Spoken like a true americunt right-winger rayzer. Hardly surprising, no?
So you are not only admiting tha you are a right winger, you are a highly stupid right winger who's openly admiting that 'anonimity' software 'should' be sabotaged.
On 2016-08-03 21:18, juan wrote:
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 18:29:32 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/03/2016 05:09 PM, juan quoted me saying:
If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things
Or else I wouldn't be doing the job right schmuck. I also have noted that I'd NEVER be doing a job like that:
(which is why I never aspired to that sort of position... my underhand toss is lousy),
Thanks for sharing... Troll.
Your comment is rather ambiguous. What's your point then? Are you finally admiting that the tor project is even more of a joke than it already was, now featuring built-in-censorship (TM)? Or what.
Rr
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 07:45:11 -0700 Rayzer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 08/02/2016 09:00 PM, jim bell wrote:
“…the committee requires that spend plans submitted by the Department of State and BBG pursuant to section 7078(c) of the act include a description of safeguards to ensure that circumvention technologies are not used for illicit purposes, such as coordinating terrorist activities or online sexual exploitation of children,” If I were managing the project I'd be limiting improvements that would allow such things
Spoken like a true americunt right-winger rayzer. Hardly surprising, no?
So you are not only admiting tha you are a right winger, you are a highly stupid right winger who's openly admiting that 'anonimity' software 'should' be sabotaged.
You aren't very bright. That's what I'm saying. If you didn't note the insinuation in what I wrote You should note it now. Troll. Rr
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 09:35:27 -0700 Razer <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
On 2016-08-03 21:18, juan wrote:
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 18:29:32 -0700
Your comment is rather ambiguous. What's your point then? Are you finally admiting that the tor project is even more of a joke than it already was, now featuring built-in-censorship (TM)? Or what.
You aren't very bright. That's what I'm saying.
Oh, OK. Feel free to call me stupid =) - It's nice to see that you are changing your tune about the tor corporation though...
If you didn't note the insinuation in what I wrote You should note it now. Troll.
Rr
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 12:46 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Witness also the subtly extreme rebukes against anyone who suggests using bittorrent over Tor - not by the head honcho email addys, but such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response.
There is a good reason for this: such requests have the potential to completely overwhelm the Tor network. If you really want to torrent anonymously, get on I2P. -- Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com>
On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 12:49:57AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 12:46 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Witness also the subtly extreme rebukes against anyone who suggests using bittorrent over Tor - not by the head honcho email addys, but such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response.
There is a good reason for this: such requests have the potential to completely overwhelm the Tor network.
So sayeth the sooth sayer, blandly parroting Tor Inc propaganda.
If you really want to torrent anonymously, get on I2P.
Do what fricken works for you! And always be highly cautious of all who proclaim authority. PS your assertions might carry more weight if you gave even a half hearted attempt to balance a counter argument at the same time as you proclaim from on high. At least you know a lot <smirk>
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 16:23 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 12:49:57AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 12:46 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Witness also the subtly extreme rebukes against anyone who suggests using bittorrent over Tor - not by the head honcho email addys, but such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response.
There is a good reason for this: such requests have the potential to completely overwhelm the Tor network.
So sayeth the sooth sayer, blandly parroting Tor Inc propaganda.
Listen, twit, I work for neither the Tor Project nor the US Government and it is deceptive to imply that I do (like you have). This is not propaganda. There are good technical and ethical reasons to not use Tor for BitTorrent data. It's the same reason that you're okay (from a social, ethical standpoint anyway) filling up your water bottle from the river, you're okay getting water for your whole campsite with 10 people from the river, but pulling a Nestlé and scooping the river dry is not (even if you're not selling the water at a profit).
And always be highly cautious of all who proclaim authority.
I don't proclaim authority. I just give advice and spread the truth. -- Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com>
On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 06:28:47 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 16:23 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 12:49:57AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 12:46 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Witness also the subtly extreme rebukes against anyone who suggests using bittorrent over Tor - not by the head honcho email addys, but such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response.
There is a good reason for this: such requests have the potential to completely overwhelm the Tor network.
So sayeth the sooth sayer, blandly parroting Tor Inc propaganda.
Listen, twit,
Uh oh. Motherfucking shitbag quinn is speaking.
I work for neither the Tor Project nor the US Government
The more you deny it, the more you look like a liar.
There are good technical and ethical reasons to not use Tor for BitTorrent data.
So, we have an american government nazi like quinn vomiting nonsense about 'ethics'. Hey quinn, why don't you explain what's morally wrong about torrents? I understand that you are an american nazi who advocates so called 'intelectual property' eh? You want to execute people who use their property as they see fit, AND you think you have the moral high ground. The fuck is a pro IP statist like you doing in a crypto anarchist mailing list? Apart from trolling, that is.
On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 12:49:57AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 12:46 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Witness also the subtly extreme rebukes against anyone who suggests using bittorrent over Tor - not by the head honcho email addys, but such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response.
There is a good reason for this: such requests have the potential to completely overwhelm the Tor network. If you really want to torrent anonymously, get on I2P.
There's an even better reason for this: BitTorrent leaks your IP. What good does onion routing do you if the exit node can see where you are? If you want to use BitTorrent without revealing your IP, get a VPN. --mlp
On Wed, 3 Aug 2016 13:23:04 +0200 "Meredith L. Patterson" <mlp@upstandinghackers.com> wrote: Aaaannd yet another fucking torbot.
On 8/3/16, Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn@rushpost.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2016-08-03 at 12:46 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
using bittorrent over Tor such suggestions consistently draw out a spitting snake in response.
There is a good reason for this: such requests have the potential to completely overwhelm the Tor network.
Anything can overwhelm anything. There's not orders of magnitude more 'overwhelmy' tech that tanks specifically to torrenting within tor than there is in i2p, phantom, gnunet, etc. Don't confuse tor and its people trying to advertise itself as a network only for certain fundamentalist use cases, with tor tech actually being able to support any random use case you can successfully push down its pipes. Tor sucks by only supporting TCP, but with onioncat you can push whatever you want over it. Tor has stated they'd look at censoring abusive use according to whatever their definition of abuse may be (such as by introducing throttling code in the clients / EG's). That's doubletalk and not a very resistant network then. These are open networks, use them as you see fit. If you don't, sooner or later, someone else, including the masses, criminals and adversaries, will. And if you happen to expose some flaw in tech or policy along the way, all the better.
If you really want to torrent anonymously, get on I2P.
In this context, no, just run a node in whatever network makes you happy such that you give back resources matching your own use and impact upon that network. If you and your friends are a bunch of cheapass leeching fucks, yes, you'll overwhelm anything.
+10x1e6 Kisses! Rr And bring chocolate! On 07/28/2016 01:54 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" <juan.g71@gmail.com <mailto:juan.g71@gmail.com>> wrote:
we know that there are struggles around sexism.
sexism? What?
We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not destroy the movement
What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists?
there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism
Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this...
Juan, I love you, but you are very 'mal cogido' and need chocolate desperately, hunfs! You know I don't respect men with more premenstrual tension than me, ugh! :P
Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not a feminazi. If I was a feminazi, I would pretend being a victim right now, making lots of drama, writing fake statements about how much you, bad bad Juan, make me feel horrible because I am a poor and fragile little girl and I need the group's protection, oooh... Poor me! Someone, please, help me! When it is convenient, I am not able of doing anything by mylself, in special without spread all the drama and hate in a twitter timeline or stupid Facebook posts! :'(
I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan. Same rights, dear. It's more fun and interesting being a girl and, as said before, I can do the same things than you, but using make-up, dress and high heels. And lots of pearls, oink oink! :D
Do you remember when those "victims" wrote that some women were using their sexuality to attack other women? Ah! When they are supposedly raped, Jake is guilty. When I am raped and tell publicly what means being a real victim, I am using my sexuality against other women. Do you understand the difference? I do not.
The people who signed this petition believe in Justice, in never using sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process.
Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :*
On Jul 28, 2016 9:02 PM, "Rayzer" <rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:
+10x1e6
Kisses!
Rr
And bring chocolate!
Muuuuah! Kisses, hugs and creamy hot chocolate, dear! <3 PS: - I confess I was wondering about those discussions in the tor-talk list, instead thinking about chocolate, my love. They still have good people in the project and I like some of them, but I don't trust the Tor Project anymore. At least, not for now. :( Well, let's make hot chocolate and try to think about cute things only, purring like a lazy cat, or I will have insomnia and nightmares with the FBI! :)
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 04:58:16PM -0300, juan wrote:
there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism
Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this...
May be ioerror got 'just desserts'. It does not look that way to me. Also seems the "leak" war (using Wikileaks) going on between warring factions in North America at the moment is a Good Thing (TM)(C)(R). BUT, you may well be right that the harm being caused by USA, all around the world, droning people to death day in and day out, is being fuelled by their well funded tool Tor and that the balance is not in our favour. Though I believe that the balance is certainly not in our favour, if you have a North American establishment damaging leak, I think you owe it to the world to get that leak out there, whether via Wikileaks or some other mechanism. I am barely hopeful for a "soft landing" for the world when the USA's fiat dollar finally crashes. After the turmoil, it's possible we may see some genuine improvements.
participants (15)
-
Cari Machet -
Cecilia Tanaka -
Georgi Guninski -
grarpamp -
jim bell -
John -
juan -
Meredith L. Patterson -
Mirimir -
Rayzer -
Razer
-
Shawn K. Quinn -
Spencer -
Zenaan Harkness -
Александр