On 09/04/2017 01:06 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:
On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram. I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.
... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out. BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic. Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.
Rr
Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips" resulting from administration of LSD
STP was a whole 'nother thing. The 'trip' was described somewhere (I think Abbie Hoffman in Revolution for the Hell of It) as 'long and juiceless' ...
in a clinical setting, which included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using very large doses. The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation domestic propaganda campaign against LSD.
Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter? Maybe not her in particular, on purpose. But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely false version of what LSD is and does.
Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar. When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on, clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful; they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly. Their verdict was unanimous: This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we does. Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and so MDMA was put on Schedule I.
It's METHAMPHETAMINE, which also has clinical uses. Raving till you chew thru your pacifier and drop from dehydration isn't 'clinical'. Just sayin'. I knew the people who distrubuted MDA on the East Coast in the 60s and MDA had the same deleterious effects from long term usage. AFAICT LSD had no effects that would be noted by psychologists or behavioral therapists as 'deleterious'. By 1969 or 1970, or 71, or so, most of what was passed off as LSD was either ALD-52 or MDA, or some other designer drug. When LSD became illegal in the US not only did the feds immediately clamp down on all the organic resources such as Ergotamine Tartrate, indole, and other items necessary for LSD production (A special # Sylvania blue bulb was necessary at one point in it's manufacture. IMAGINE what would happen if a lighting house received an oddball order for a few), as was noted at the time in the underground newspapers, many of the supply houses WERE THE FEDS, and they used the mailing lists quite effectively to shut down labs. You might want to listen to this... From one of Owsley's close personal friends, on his passing. March 15 2011 Travus T. Hipp Morning News & Commentary: Owsley, The Man Who 'Changed The Minds' Of An Entire Generation... Literally... Passes https://archive.org/details/tth_110315 Owsley wasn't a chemist you know... He was a speedfreak. His GF was an organic chemist, and as is so succinctly pointed out here, what made Owsley the 'name you could trust' in LSD, was he actually tried the shit before he sold it. Most of what was passed off as L was made by scumbags not far removed from the Mafia (Brotherhood of Eternal Light at their former missile silo in was it Nebraska?). The Mafia LUVS chemicals. Easy to transport unlike bulky stinky weed, and the one thing I noted in my experience in NY, when ever you got around L dealers, you started seeing guns, and people who looked A LOT like feds.
MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient) sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there."
As you described it, "empathogen,", it has certain SPECIFIC effects, just like every other ordinary pharmaceutical, and just because you feel all lovey dovey DOES NOT NOR HAS IT EVER MEANT, you 'explored your inner space'. The phrase "Adjunct to Psychotherapy" come to mind. Tripping with a bunch of people who are just like wow I love you groovy then they go back to my day job slicing throats at some corporate hack job or another, doesn't, and WHERE IS THE "GUIDANCE"? It's the hedonists leading the hedonists down the rosy path to... I dunno. Running into a fire at "burning man" or some stupid thing like that.
I speculate that the Feds chose to suppress MDMA both because of unwanted macro scale social impacts, and because its obvious intelligence tradecraft applications (elicitation of information, agent development & recruitment) do not belong in "private" hands.
Torture (in 1st case), and Social engineering/subterfuge (2nd) is cheaper and just as "reliable".
Today's "ecstasy" a.k.a. X contains no MDMA but typically does contain amphetamine, heroin, and one or more "designer" drugs to tweak the experience this way or that.
Gil Scott-Heron on Street Corner Chemistry. A short poem precedes: https://youtu.be/78tTKTkz778?t=19m6s I figure, even in 1968, only about half of what I ever consumed was actually LSD, and my bottom line is I don't know why anyone would bother with chemicals today when you can purchase 'mushrooom kits' and the seed houses no longer give a fuck if you're buying Hawaiian Wood Rose pods or Salvia in bulk, etc.
Mixing that crap with alcohol can knock a person right down (this I have seen in real life) and respiratory arrest sometimes follows.
:o/
The West Coast "Thing", which I never could understand, was Wine by the gallon jug and L. No one ever suffered respiratory arrest. Rr