On 08/07/2017 05:33 PM, juan wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 19:27:23 -0400 Steve Kinney <admin@pilobilus.net> wrote:
The Nolan test indicates what people believe about themselves, not the actual motives that affect their actions - otherwise, the inevitable conversion of our society to a Libertarian model of governance would have happened decades ago.
I'm not following. Are you saying that most "healthy adults" are libertarians? If that was the case, then indeed we would expect society to be libertarian. But since the US (in this case) is anything but libertarian, then your premise is false? It seems kinda obvious that most 'healthy' adults are either left wing fascists or right wing fascists. Not healthy at all of course.
I would not say that most healthy adults are Libertarians; I would say that the Nolan Chart should diagnose most healthy adults as Libertarians. That's what makes it a high value recruiting tool for the Libertarian Party. "What you always were has a name, and even a political party working for what YOU want!" Anyone working for any Party can /say/ that to anyone else, but the Libertarians present a convincing illusion of objective proof. Whether the likely outcomes of implementing the Party's policy agenda resemble the promised results, bears no relation to the recruitment process.
http://pilobilus.net/Political-Power-Spectrum.png Looks good. However, the term "capitalism" isn't the right one I think, because it's too ambiguous. More accurate terms : mercantilism or corporatism, which in practice lead to big businesses and monopoly.
Any analysis at this level of abstraction will have plenty of ambiguities. I was aiming for "common sense" a.k.a. propaganda driven terminology, with breaking certain "common sense" paradigms in mind. Filling in the details is up to the individual. That's where the fun is.
It's true that there are people who defend the current fascist system and claim that big businesses are a poor oppressed minority and the government should stop taxing goldman sachs and google and raytheon. I'm referring to the randroid scumbags of course. They certainly beong to the far right, but they have obviously nothing to do with 'anarchism'.
In a context where ownership of capital is highly concentrated in the hands of a small minority, but access to armed force is widely distributed across the population, you might get Robber Barons: More or less the "Right." In a context where ownership of capital is highly concentrated in the hands of a small minority, and access to armed force is highly concentrated in the hands of a small minority, you might get NeoLiberals: More or less the "Left." These outcomes are not inherent in the model, but given that the Left and Right as described here already dominate the playing field...
If most people who identify as Libertarian would rather live in the lower right quadrant of the above graph, so sorry. That Party offers no such program or agenda: well, the US libertarian party is really a non-entity so their offerings don't really mean anything...
The Libertarian Party does divert a lot of bright, capable people down a blind alley. They are presented with a believable ideology that, if adopted as national policy, would remove present restraints (such as they are) from our Robber Baron capitalists. Whether this is a good or bad idea is left as an exercise.
Only a hollow promise that incorruptible Civil Courts will deliver equal justice to penniless individuals and corporate cartels, and that the infallible invisible hand of the Free Market will prevent systemic abuse of corporate power.
well, that's indeed the philosophy behind "anarchist free enterprise". If on the other hand, you think that a free market will NOT prevent abuse/concentration of economic power, then you'd need to call the state to 'regulate' the market....and stop being an anarchist.
That is why I call my own orientation and agenda Anarchism. My preferred quadrant of the above graph is the lower right one: Broadly distributed political and economic power among autonomous local communities. Clockwise from lower left, I associate the quadrants with Free Market Capitalism, Socialist State Capitalism, Feudal Aristocracy and Tribal Federations.
Sorry, the red (lower left) quadrant is not free market capitalism at all. The red quadrant is an absurd position IF we use your definition of capitalism. You can't have state privileges(capitalism) if there's no state. Let's see: The red quadrant indicates high concentration of economic
Again, a lot depends on the definitions of highly abstract terms. In a localized, decentralized system of governance, the inhabitants of any given self governing region could do whatever they damn well please about regulating commerce and addressing the impact of industrial processes on resources of value to the community, i.e. what the folks upstream are doing to the water you irrigate your fields with. In the event of conflicting interests some sort of settlement will be worked out, with or without resort to brute force. The definition of anarchy as the absence of governance would be a joke, if it was not a very well established article of indoctrinated faith, bestowed on us by our forbears' authoritarian rulers. People organize into groups and make collective decisions; those who don't have that trait went extinct ages ago. How they do that, and at what scale, have varied widely. In my view, the smaller the units of governance, the more widely distributed the decision making process, and the fewer barriers to participation the better. To err is human and every form of governance fucks up; but, generally speaking, tribal councils that act by consensus seem to have done the least harm. power in the hands of a small number of people, plus distribution of power mediated by armed force across a large number of people. The power of a wealthy minority, not restrained by rules enforced by an armed central authority, sounds like Free Market Capitalism to me. With that concentration of wealth, it should be no problem for an economic ruling class to hire enough mercenaries to protect their interests from all those armed citizens. Note that capitalism != corporatism, it only indicates a specialization in acquisition and growth of private wealth.
Free market capitalism is basically the green quadrant. But you are referring to it as "tribal federations" which is term you just made up... Made up? Far from it. A tribal federation is a group of local councils, coordinating regional relations with other councils by treaty agreements. It was the dominant form of governance in North America when the Europeans showed up in force with superior technology. We are not taught about the tribal council and federation model, because it is important for us to understand that the natives were "ignorant savages, incapable of organizing and governing themselves." Otherwise, what becomes of Manifest Destiny and the White Man's Burden? Your red quadrant and your violet quadrant are absurdities and not recognized in 'standard' political philosophy, plus your classification can't account for plain old state socialism/communism. The graph seems to account exactly for plain old state socialism/communitsm: See the dot marked "Left." Maximum concentration of economic power in the hands of a minority (State appointed functionaries), plus maximum concentration of coercive force in the hands of a minority (State legal, police, and military activities). How is that inconsistent with plain old state socialism/communism?
All loosely defined, as is proper with high level abstract labels. All have their upsides and downsides, but Tribal Federations have, so far, produced the least harmful results overall. Can that model make a comeback in the post-industrial world? Are you assuming this is a 'post industrial' world? Or are you talking about some hypothetical collapse of the industrial world?
I've bad news for you (and me). The industrial world isn't going away anytime soon. Depends one's definition of "soon." I do expect today's global economic system to crash, hard, within 10 to 20 years, taking "heavy industry" and long range transportation of bulk material commodities with it. Not completely, but sufficiently to cause a domino effect leading to a significant human population crash.
I could be wrong in this case, but exponential growth inside a closed container usually ends badly for whatever is growing exponentially, and/or for its container. In the context of human affairs, that end typically comes as a shocking surprise because exponential growth functions are counter-intuitive; our normative bias leads us to expect linear change where we anticipate any change at all. The immediate self interest of millions of human actors whose combined decision making drives the exponential growth of industrial process, biases the lot of them toward magical thinking - even those who /can/ accurately imagine exponential processes. Just now, peak extraction rates for many non-regenerating environmental resources are arriving at the same time; the humans have been spending down their 'natural capital' faster than Donald Trump spending down his inheritance to maintain the illusion that he is a brilliantly successful businessman. One of the more alarming features of material economics today, is that the rising curve of food demand and falling curve of food production rates are presently crossing, while essential inputs to agriculture (and animal husbandry) - potable water, topsoil, phosphates - have reached or passed peak utilization rates. Worldwide, food reserves are at historic lows and resupply is not expected. Our industrial civilization is brittle, but the humans themselves are very resilient. Although I do expect Very Bad Things to happen, I see lots of room for very good long term outcomes.