On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

So the US government appears set on complete destruction of Ukraine.
Doesn't even make strategic sense at this point. I guess unless you're
an essentially evil Western oligarch who wants to carve it up for
purchase on the cheap, the people, the Russians, and the world be
damned.

USA congress, your insanity and evil is noted. Once again, your broad
scale fundamental compromise and therefore essential illegitimacy, is
noted by the rest of the world.

Let's see if this is stopped or passed by the USA senate and president.

So what you're saying is that, if you get mugged on the street and the mugger has a gun to your head, then any attempt to resist the mugger means you are suicidal, and anyone who tries to help you is dead set on your destruction? Great logic, there.

One could just as easily turn this around and say that Putin is dead set on Ukraine's destruction because he won't allow the Ukrainians to determine their own destiny. Even if you were to assume that all his lies about not sending in Russian troops and equipment (almost certainly engineered to be precisely accurate under a very narrow definition of same and only if you squint in the right way) were true, he is certainly encouraging the Russian thugs living there to engage in as much violence as possible.

No, this is Putin's baby. He's set it up so that if he can't have Ukraine, nobody will. And the poor Ukrainians are caught in the middle, just as they always have been because of their unfortunate geographic situation next to a violent, ultranationalist neighbor. Violent and ultranationalist according to Zenaan himself, by the way, who just told us that Putin is the most moderate person the Russians could have elected.

The US is helping Ukraine because the UKRAINIANS HAVE ASKED FOR HELP. If the situation is truly as you claim it is, then why isn't it just "better to die on our feet than live on our knees?" Perhaps the Ukrainians are simply tired of living in Russia's shadow and are terrified of the strongman the Russians have elected?

As you know, I'm no fan of US foreign policy, but Russia is no better. As far as I can tell, you only like them because you hate the US so much, and the Russians are the only reasonable counterbalance you can think of. I totally agree with you on the need to return to a multi-polar world, just not because I think the Russians are any better than the US. They're just DIFFERENT and can force the US to compromise.