I am not sure if everyone is aware that there is also an unmoderated crypto list, because I see old familiar names posting on the moderated crypto list that I do not see posting on the unmoderated list. The unmoderated list has been running continuously (new posts in every day with no gaps) since mar 2010, with an interesting relatively low noise, and not firehose volume. http://lists.randombit.net/mailman/listinfo/cryptography The actual reason for the creation of that list was Perry's list went through a hiatus when Perry stopped approving/forward posts eg http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/ originally Nov 2009 - Mar 2010 (I presume the mar 2010 restart was motivated by the creation of randombit list starting in the same month) but more recently sep 2010 to may 2013 gap (minus traffic in aug 2011). http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/ I have no desire to pry into Perry's personal circumstances as to why this huge gap happened, and he should be thanked for the significant moderation effort he has put into create this low noise environment, but despite that it is bad for cryptography if people's means of technical interaction spuriously stops. Perry mentioned recently that he has now backup moderators, OK so good. There is now also the cypherpunks list which has picked up, and covers a wider mix of topics, censorship resistant technology ideas, forays into ideology etc. Moderation is even lower than randombit but no spam, noise slightly higher but quite reasonable so far. And there is now a domain name that is not al-quaeda.net (seriously? is that even funny?): cpunks.org. https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/ At least I enjoy it and see some familiar names posting last seen decade+ ago. Anyway my reason for posting was threefold: a) make people aware of randombit crypto list, b) rebooted cypherpunks list (*), but c) about how to use randombit (unmoderated) and metzdowd. For my tastes sometimes Perry will cut off a discussion that I thought was just warming up because I wanted to get into the detail, so I tend more prefer the unmoderated list. But its kind of a weird situaton because there are people I want views and comments from who are on the metzdowd list who as far as I know are not on the crypto list, and there's no convenient way to migrate a conversation other than everyone subscribing to both. Cc to both perhaps works somewhat, I do that sometimes though as a general principle it can be annoying when people Cc to too many lists. Anyway thanks for your attention, back to the unmoderated (or moderated) discussion! Adam