We’re about to find out about effective altruism (i.redd.it) submitted 4 hours ago by mehtabot 98 comments share save hide report all 98 comments sorted by: best Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! [–]leducdeguisethis is not financial advice 150 points 4 hours ago CZ probably didn't like the recipe used at FTX to cook the books. Cooking is a very personal thing permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Zhukov-74 33 points 3 hours ago This is exactly why Regulations exist. It’s insane that this was just allowed to happen for years on end. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]bobj33The margin call is coming from inside the scam! 5 points 2 hours ago Bankman Fraud has made millions in campaign contributions permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]FPL_Harry 6 points an hour ago hundreds of millions. I know it's a common dumb whataboutist claim from the butters but truly the American system of government that allows "official bribing" under the moniker of "lobbying" is in incredible scam on their people too. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]bigmean3434 3 points an hour ago Amen permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]paul__k 36 points 3 hours ago Take 2 parts Enron, 1 part Lehman, add dangerously high levels of leverage, and let simmer on medium heat for 12-18 months. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Couve_do_Lidlrecognizes genius 8 points 3 hours ago Goes well with a glass of Stampante Paolo Ardoino D.O.P. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Boollish 22 points 3 hours ago Or it was always just a scheme to prop up confidence in markets while they ran for the exits. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Grig134 3 points an hour ago This is my thought as well. Binance is fully aware of the financial chicanery FTX is up to. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]shemanese 21 points 3 hours ago I knew this was dead when they said they needed to do a due diligence and a non-binding LOI... permalink embed save parent report give award reply [+]realhuman8762 comment score below threshold (5 children) [–]ShotgunMage 35 points 4 hours ago CZ fucked up the shorts. Now he's going after the longs. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]AprilSpektra 4 points 2 hours ago Oh no, not Justin Long! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Elimaris 7 points 3 hours ago Captain Cook and the chili pepper signature eh? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheRealSlimKami 111 points 4 hours ago “FTX is going to bail out Celsius!!! They fucked up bad but FTX is totally solvent and the funds are safe!!” a few moments later “Binance is going to bail out FTX!!! They fucked up bad but Binance is….” What could happen next?! No one knows! All we know is, funds are safu! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Socalwarrior485 52 points 4 hours ago Safu? Like “Seriously All Fucked Up”. Nailed it. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]_volkerball_ 36 points 4 hours ago stolen away from us permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]current_the 24 points 2 hours ago That is pretty much what Darth Roubini's take on the whole thing was: First FTX bails out collapsing crypto Ponzi scams. Now FTX is collapsing & being bailed out by Binance. But who will bail out Binance when that crappy house of cards collapses? Crypto is Mother Of All Ponzi Schemes! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]LogicIsTheSecret 8 points 2 hours ago It's like Russian dolls ... one ponzi within another ponzi ... and so on and on ... permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]clint125warning, I am a moron 76 points 4 hours ago Tether is going to need another printer. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]SnarkConfidant 27 points 4 hours ago "We're gonna need a bigger boat sucker." permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]FlightOfThePigs 14 points 3 hours ago Paolo is going to need a printing assistant or a big raise. No way can he man 2 printers on his own permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]magicspellingbee 2 points an hour ago Paolo is investigating extradition treaties. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Arma_Diller 1 point 2 hours ago Why do you have that flair? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]magicspellingbee 0 points an hour ago Another minter. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]anyprophet 50 points 4 hours ago FTX is looking increasingly like a ponzi but, no shit? what did anyone expect it to be? does anything thing binance's books are clean? this was always about destroying a competitor. if there was anything worth salvaging they were going to take it. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ShouldersofGiants100And DON'T COME BACK! 41 points 3 hours ago if there was anything worth salvaging they were going to take it. I think what was worth salvaging was entirely a look into their books. FTX obviously has holdings in crypto. Knowing exactly how much and in which coins means they know which currencies will drop when FTX liquidates. Whole thing seems like a bit of insider trading—they can short the entire market, including the coins FTX is most invested in and control the timing, since only they know exactly when they will announce the deal "fell through". It's the kind of scam that is brazenly illegal in the stock market, but not in a completely unregulated scam market. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]polishlastnames 7 points 2 hours ago Oh wow. Never thought of it this way. SBF let the Trojan horse in his compound. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]A_Sexual_Tyrannosaur 0 points an hour ago And by compound, you mean asshole. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TomStanford67 1 point an hour ago That sure sounds like fraud that wouldn't escape prosecution regardless of the lack of regulation around crypto. Just because crypto is unregulated doesn't mean players in this space are free to commit all manner of crimes already on the books. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ShouldersofGiants100And DON'T COME BACK! 1 point an hour ago Insider trading typically only applies to stocks. If FTX was publically traded and they pulled the same tricks to short the stock, the FTC would hunt him to the ends of the earth. But while crypto has many of the same functions as stocks, but is not covered by the regulations. Insider trading and open price manipulation have been rampant in the crypto space for years, as have a number of other things that are illegal in stocks. They are never prosecuted. What Elon did with Dogecoin and Bitcoin, for example, would absolutely have been criminal if he did it with a stock. In fact it was and he was punished for it when he did it with Tesla (albeit mildly). There's no fraud here. It's all financial crimes which are specifically illegal in trading stocks. Half the appeal of the crypto space is that it operates enough like a stock market for old style crimes to be reused, but is different enough to not be regulated the same way. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]HugeBernieExcellent roadmap! 18 points 4 hours ago Things worth salvaging: SBF's rights to acquire previously bailed out crypto companies for cheap List of gambling addicts (users) permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheAnalogKoalaMichael Saylor Poe 11 points 4 hours ago For sure. The most effective people to scam are previous scam victims. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Traditional-Ad3161 7 points 3 hours ago Bingo. That's why every poster on r/Scams gets dms from recovery scammers and why people who buy NFTs are common spear-phishing targets. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]brock_h 8 points 3 hours ago Lol. Let it go into insolvency and the legal system will release the lists for free like Celsius. Victims of FTX fraud won't win from this. It needs to be repeated over and over: SBF is a fraudster and a con artist. People are shifting blame. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]HugeBernieExcellent roadmap! 2 points 2 hours ago If I'm a casino, I want to buy my rival's contact list and keep it private. I don't want it leaked. And notably, the Binance and FTX arms involved here are non-US so no US citizens should even have claims against them (lol). permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]paul__k 14 points 3 hours ago Spoiler: Crypto in its entirety is all a bunch of highly levered, interlinked Ponzis. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Chaaaaaaaarles 1 point an hour ago "Within spreadsheet cells - interlinked." permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]monkorn 1 point 2 hours ago All Crypto Are Bastards. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]MKorostoffNot Big Tony. Anything but Big Tony! 53 points 3 hours ago SBF: "Please buy my insolvent company." CZ: "Yes." [CZ looks at the books] CZ: "I can't buy this, it's insolvent." permalink embed save report give award reply [–]UmichAgnos 36 points 4 hours ago So no one is getting rescued now? Who is going to rescue voyager and celcius? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]barsoapguy 19 points 4 hours ago No one that’s who . permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]PityJ91 23 points 4 hours ago That no one guy is really generous permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]thebabaghanoush 7 points 3 hours ago Founders already embezzled their cut, and a few early whales cashed out. They would like to thank all the plebeians who lost money for the extra wealth! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]JennItalia269 10 points 4 hours ago Waiting for Superman to come to their rescue. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Nahbjuwet363 4 points 3 hours ago I hear Alex mashinsky has some GPUs permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]MacHaggis 44 points 4 hours ago Ah, they're pulling an Elon. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]anyprophet 43 points 4 hours ago lol yeah apt comparison. "i'm going to buy twitter so i can fix the bot problem!" "i can't buy twitter there's a bot problem!" permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cromatkastar 37 points 4 hours ago binance at least learned from elons mistake. signed a non intent rather than whatever the fuck elon did that made him lose 44 billion dollars permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Traditional-Ad3161 14 points 3 hours ago Elon signed an airtight legally binding contract. This was none of those things. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TheFasterBlaster 4 points 2 hours ago If by learned you mean listened to anyone with an iota of insight into M&A. If you’re going to spend billions on a company you might want to conduct Due Diligence on it first! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ShouldersofGiants100And DON'T COME BACK! 26 points 3 hours ago Nah, Elon was dumb enough to make an actual offer, sight unseen. CZ wrote a deliberately non-binding Letter of Intent—he could show up, decide he didn't like the colour of a lawyer's tie and drop the deal for that if he wanted to. I think most people called this from the start—he was never going through with it. Use the offer to get access to a whole bunch of information that might be useful (like, for example, what currencies he might want to short when FTX collapses because of their holdings) and then pull out, letting them die. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]DifferentRole 8 points 2 hours ago To be fair- someone on the internets dared Elon to buy Twitter, his hands were tied permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]current_the 21 points 2 hours ago If Coindesk keeps doing actual journalism like this there will soon be no more coins on their desk to write about. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]coriolisFX 3 points an hour ago inshallah permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]barsoapguy 12 points 4 hours ago The only reason they wanted to see the books is so that they could figure out who to short ,that’s it . permalink embed save report give award reply [–]recycledbits 6 points 3 hours ago Also get more time to offload their FTT bag? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]barsoapguy 3 points 3 hours ago That too permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]campionesidd 2 points an hour ago Wouldn’t that be considered insider trading? Or do cryptos not fall under that purview? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]barsoapguy 3 points an hour ago Crypto is new technology, old laws like insider trading don’t apply because “new” permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]campionesidd 2 points an hour ago A scammer’s paradise indeed. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]IsilZha 2 points an hour ago Which is a "feature" to cryptovangelists. Until they want to be saved by the same system that they didn't want to be regulated by. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]DongerTheWhitewarning, i am a moron Troll 25 points 4 hours ago “After glancing” lolol permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ShadowHound75 10 points 4 hours ago Called it! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Traditional-Ad3161 8 points 3 hours ago The funniest kind of rugpull. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]mnamilt 8 points 2 hours ago* Note: this comment is mainly for myself to talk myself through what is happening. Pure speculation/based on feelings, not on facts. CZ participates in the flywheel scheme with BNB, and knows that FTT, CEL and Luna/Terra are flywheel schemes. CEL and Luna blow up, and the public widely learns about the existence of flywheel schemes, and how they work. FTX bails out Alameda over the summer, and CZ somehow privately learns about this. He now knows that FTX is insolvent, and that this means impending unavoidable doom for FTX in the future. Early november the CoinDesk article comes out alleging the insolvency of FTX. Based on this, CZ estimates that is inevitable that FTX will blow up pretty soon, since once the knowledge spreads about this, a bankrun is inevitable. CZ holds an 500M USD worth of FTT that will thus soon become worthless. This spooks CZ into finding a plan how to get as much value out of the coming disaster, both from the sale of FTT, as well as other options to profit. First, he sells as much FTT as possible without moving too much of the price. Its probably not that much, but its the most he can get out of it. Then, he announces of Twitter that they will divest from their FTT. This ensures that the bankrun will kick off immediately and happen extremely quickly. SBF has very little time to respond as when he sees the bankrun start happen. After the first few hours he can tweet that everything is fine. A few hours later he has to start beginning people to save FTX to the tune of a billion dollars. Another few hours later he is in a 6 billion hole. Everyone says no, because lol. SBF is completely desperate. CZ calls SBF to buy FTX and fix the issue, pending he do due diligence and see the entire orderbook. SBF is so desperate he says yes, not thinking it through that it is obviously a trap by CZ, as CZ will obviously back out of the deal. CZ now has access to the entire orderbook. Binance can now trade significantly more effectively in the market, and make significantly more money of it. CZ cancels the deal, because lol he does not want to have to pay billions of dollars to people. Binance tries to extract much assets from FTX by trading against it. EDIT 15min later: Traders with money in their FTX account now start trading with funny money, and try to extract as much money from their accounts as well. This both leads to money being sucked out of the space at a rapid speed. This causes the significant drop in prices now. These prices will continue to drop more and more rapidly, as everyone will want to put their money out of the system. This might actually be a deathspiral for the full ecosystem then? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]devliegende 3 points 2 hours ago I think in general you are spot on in that CZ played the whole thing to sink SBF. Except that it is likely more about ego than profit. CZ could end up a loser as well, because next stop maybe more regulations permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]blackmobius 6 points 3 hours ago They dont want to capsize by directly absorbing the losses, a d figure they can withstand the partial collapse on their own permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TheAnalogKoalaMichael Saylor Poe 7 points 4 hours ago Wow. Literally no one saw that coming. No one. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]feignignorencewarning, I am a moron 3 points 3 hours ago I don't mean to be mean, but SBF's appearance didn't really inspire confidence... Is it no surprise that his little thing fell apart? CZ and Kris also don't inspire confidence too btw, lol permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Finnegan_Faux 2 points 2 hours ago CZ may not bail out SBF after all. That’s FTX’d up. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]YoungMaleficent9068 2 points 2 hours ago Anyone thought they pull through? Biance has it's cash in musk now. He's going to sink Twitter. Then Biance collapse. I am only familiar with chicken nuggies permalink embed save report give award reply [+]BenjyMemeMan 1 point 4 hours ago (0 children) [–]anonymousnuisance 0 points 2 hours ago Didn't we just see this with Elon? Won't this go to court? I say this because he signed a Letter of Intent. Pretty sure that's the same thing Elon did. Maybe because of different circumstances this won't be as bad? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]devliegende 4 points 2 hours ago Elon waived due diligence and signed an actual offer permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Effective_Try_again 2 points an hour ago Nah they signed a non binding letter, very different from what Musk did permalink embed save parent report give award reply [+]drlogwasoncemine comment score below threshold (5 children) [–]LoongBoat 1 point 2 hours ago When a guy with supposedly a $20 billion net worth keeps playing the double or nothing game that got him there… eventually the coin lands tails (unless you’re in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, and their luck doesn’t last forever either). Could have taken a few bil and bought something in the real world. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Remarkable-Ad155 1 point 2 hours ago Love "glancing" 😂 Wonder what put them off? 🤔 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]joyoftoy 1 point 2 hours ago Gee, didn’t see this one coming permalink embed save report give award reply [–]polishlastnames 1 point 2 hours ago This is it boys. This is the beginning of the end. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]MightSuggestSex 1 point 2 hours ago Last chance to get in below...hold on, let me check...17,000! Few understand permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Humble-Economics-648 1 point 2 hours ago There’s always a way. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Acceptable-Brain-334 1 point 2 hours ago Basically all of these crypto exchanges might be handed over to the Banking Institutions. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]entered_bubble_50 2 points an hour ago The funniest part of this crypto collapse for me is the number of crypto bros finding out they never even owned any crypto in the first place. They "bought" some in these exchanges, and are now finding out the coins never existed. They just had a number on an account on a website. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Jimger_1983 1 point an hour ago This is good for Bitcoin!!! permalink embed save report give award reply