Re: Why Cypherpunks Shouldn't Vote for the system of their own oppression

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 18:30:36 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote:

I'm not going to be drawn into Juan's nonsense.         Jim Bell

Translation : you can't counter a single thing I said =) So again, anybody who believes in the 'authority' of the state is NOT a libertarian. Full stop.

From: juan To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Why Cypherpunks Shouldn't Vote for the system of their own oppression On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 17:48:57 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote:

...

  From: Razer The issue I'm having reading this thread about the US Erections is this list is ostensibly Anarchist and I don't understand why it's infested almost exclusively by Libertarians. Libertarians CANNOT be Anarchist ... because they believe in government. Small, but they BELIEVE that the US political system actually works in the interest of the people, or it can be made so.

Not exactly, There are "anarchist libertarians" and "minarchist libertarians".  

    No. So called 'minarchist' 'libertarians' are just statists,     not libertarians. They believe in murdering anyone who doesn't     obey the Holy State.

...

I was one of the latter, before 1995 when I discovered/invented my AP system.  

    So you were a plain old statist who didn't study libertarian     philosophy well enough.

...

Afterwards, I realized not only that having no government was possible, it was essentially inevitable.

    That is not true. Your AP system isn't going to magically get     rid of government. There's absolutely no reason why it must     'inevitable' lead to anarchy.

    To sum up : actual and consistent libertarians existed way     before 'assasination politics'. Consistent libertarianism has     nothing to do with utilitarian and or 'practical'     considerations.

...

Note:  It is, strictly speaking, incorrect to say:  "Libertarians CANNOT be Anarchist ...because they believe in government."Libertarians believe in a certain set of limits to people's relationships and interactions with other people.  A Libertarian may believe that a small government is tolerable, and maybe still necessary; other libertarians may believe that a stable anarchy is possible.  (As I now do.) Jim Bell