Folks who want their cypher unsullied have plenty of many and varied lists, but should have their full pure cyphered punk (whatever that means to them) without the "stress" of non cypher which appears evidently stressful. As was said last year, my personal intent is to respect the intenet of the founders of this forum/list. Lists are neither complicated, difficult nor with singificant overhead, to run. And it appears evident there is a smallish but loud number of emotionally pained individuals who want to not be adulterated by calls to action, discussion of politics, defense of fundamental and essential principles to any community we can imagine, or anything outside their personal expectations for what the cypherpunks list "should be". Far be it for us to cause any undue stress to the poor darlings. ----------------- So, once again, there is a fair whack of offlist, and in the past on list, support for an similar but alternative email mailing list. Of course there has also been both on and offlist calls to not split the list. The possible 'new list' would be "just like cypherpunks, only a little less elitist about what can be discussed", including and especially tech, cypher, politico, anarcho, actiono, liberto and any other old o, topics :) In fact, this alternative list is not elitist at all - if you wanna talk it, bloody well talk it, the list shall forever be uncesored, just expect no mercy on the "constructive" or "vehement" feedback side :) If "you can't HANDLE the response!" then stick to cyphussy-whipped. One could even consider this new list an "anarchist" list. The only (should be self evident) proviso is that your speech be lawful in the jurisdiction of the listserv operator, for (what ought be self evidently) obvious reasons. ----------------- And now, the final call! :: Are there any loud "no, please don't split the list" calls which can make a convincing argument as to why a few cotton wool footed, excessively schooled, overly emotional Westerners with delicate communication sensibilities and inadequate personal technical ability, ought not have their little CIA dominated pow wow room under the current name, and a new anarchist list under a slightly distinguished and eminently distinguishable alternative name? As a little reminder, alternative alternative lists, providing abundent opportunity for free form but self moderated or actually censored crypto techno discussion are, for example: nettime metzdowd securityfocus many universities djb lists eff tor-talk, tor-project etc many newsgroups and a whole internet more, just a search away Finally, before those tenderfoots jump in with "yes please", perhaps read this again: http://cryptome.org/2013/09/cpunks-crypto.htm including its many choice quotes including: - "the political has won out over the technical". - this one reminds of the total overthrow and take over of Tor Inc that's just gone down in front of us all, along with the public, professional and very personal destruction of Jacob Applebaum: "What has been shown in the discussion is that the technical wizards are not nearly as competent at the messy political" - "petty squabblling and exchange of slurs has replaced rational discourse. Thus the convo has become politicized with as much stupidity and ignorance as sharp thinking and mutual respect" Do bring your best, and best regards to all, Zenaan