"... I hate Ayn Rand but this frequently cited fact -- that she took social security payments -- is often cited to allegedly prove her hypocrisy. But her argument was, the government stole from her, so she was justified in recouping some of the stolen money by filling out the paperwork etc. Her logic makes sense to me given her ideas so I don't think it was hypocritical, even if wrong. Also more broadly, should outgroups steal from one another? The best argument I see in favor is they are dangerous outgroups, so harm them to protect you and yours. The best argument I see against is the more one interacts with someone (even to inflict damage), the more one (if one is goodhearted? prosocial?) starts to empathize with that individual and wants to help them recondition rather than continue to harm. Thoughts? To tie it into cypherpunks just use as examples warring factions/tribes in the hacktivism/transparency landscape..." It may not be the strongest argument against her - but hey - they got Al Capone for spitting on the sidewalk. As to the second point - I was just reading Orwell's experience being unable to shoot a fascist with his pants down. https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-oth... I like to think those days of ' Marquis of Queensbury ' rules are long gone. However sometimes I acquire a grudging respect for an opponent. Probably cos no ideology has a monopoly on wisdom.