On 9/15/16 1:12 AM, Zenaan Harkness
wrote:
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 11:20:31PM -0700, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
On 9/14/16 8:34 PM, grarpamp wrote:
Leaking paper is one thing, disassembling the quiet
handshakes and luncheons of conspiracy is another.
Much of what corporations do is legal, whether you like it or not.
Legal, as in compliant with their statutory right to financially pillage
and legally bully their way around arbitrary "privilege" monopolies,
yes.
Lawful, as in compliant with the common man's sense of right and wrong
(the "common law" or "community law"),
no!
I think common law could be defined more precisely. There has
always been a gap between what was considered illegal and what
seemed unfair to someone.
Actual conspiracies are seldom needed
A fluffy and largely useless statement.
Actual conspiracies are every day occurrences, widespread to the point
of being universal.
From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48
[gcide]:
Conspire \Con*spire"\, v. t.
To plot; to plan; to combine for.
[1913 Webster]
Angry clouds conspire your overthrow. --Bp. Hall.
[1913 Webster]
In this context, I took that to mean 'illegal conspiracy', which has
a much more specific meaning. Using the general meaning to justify
the statement when that statement will be taken as indicating
criminal conspiracies is misleading.
and usually not worth the
risk.
People talk and plot in private, including corporate "leaders".
And usually there is nothing wrong with that.
--Especially-- corporate leaders.
Talking and plotting -is- conspiring.
But not necessarily illegal conspiracy.
Example:
To conspire with other self interested corporate executives, to
combine bribery capacity (lobbying), to cause -unlawful- laws to be
passed by parliament, which institute 10 years jail time punishments
for sharing a file by bittorrent;
Such punishment being thereafter deemed as "legal" punishment, even
though such punishment is not, and would never be, lawful by the
moral standards of the community (cruel and unusual punishment,
punishment which does not fit the crime, punishment not comparable to
punishment for other crimes e.g. rape, murder, tanking the economy
("white collar" crime)).
I can see that, although it seems weak. And it is rebuttable by the
right campaign.
Stephen, you are brainwashed, and purveying your brainwashing upon
others.
The part of that which I personally, vehemently, object to, is that you
do so with an endless air of authority.
I claim familiarity with certain things, and demand clarity, logic,
and specifics in any argument. I make little or no claims of
authority beyond certain first hand knowledge, experience, and
conclusions after reading authoritative sources. More solidly
grounded specifics will always have an air of authority over vague
hand waving and ad hominem attacks. I can't really help that.
And with seemingly endless pro-statist views.
I'm not all that pro-statist, but I also don't ignore what is
working or blindly denigrate systems that should and could work
better. Often things somewhat broken can be fixed rather than
tearing down everything that is working out of spite and blind
rage. Alternatives to everything should be considered, but
alternatives aren't better simply because they are alternative;
there has to be some reasoning and proof of some kind.
Many abuses have come to light, usually with a pretty good downside
for the corporation. Harder to get away with really bad stuff than it
used to be.
It's getting easier and easier for corporations to do bad stuff legally.
They lobby, they get their pet "laws" (unlawful though they are) passed,
and thereafter their crimes falling under those laws are "legal", even
though they remain as crimes, and remain immoral.
Plenty of this has just been exposed in the last few years. Some of
that will no longer work. There are some cases of this still.
Ioerror.
Institutional assassination
Precisely. And it's disgusting.
What are the worst things that corporate heads and politicians are
getting away with?
Endless encroachment upon our individual sovereign rights with "laws",
making their immoral activities and enforcements against our individual
sovereign rights, legal.
OK.
What's your proposed solution? What's your proposed cypherpunkian
solution?
Well, there are possibly the most useful things you've ever said on this
list. Good question. There, I said it. You asked a useful question.
In the current context, get your torrentz over Tor, I2P, possibly
FreeNet, and also sneakernet - network in human space, N2N / neighbour
to neighbour your neighbourhood.
OK, now that you have a secure overlay communications and identity
network, how are you going to manage it and the community of users?
Are you going to nullify IP rights? What else?
sdw