-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I agree with l. Essentially what a true BI would do (implemented broadly across the globe, at least) is to make this society even worse than it already is, with Cloud Atlas being a good analogy. It's interesting that few have paused to consider the potential ramifications of guaranteeing resources for anyone (and I don't think rehashing examples from Alaska and Saudi Arabia are helpful), but haven't hesitated to demand that your resources be taken by and allocated here and there by actors and representatives of dubious quality so that their plans for social and economic control can be implemented. Not to mention that the whole BI enterprise, to the extent that it is reliant upon governments, is backed by coercion and use of force. (To the extent that a BI scheme is non-governmental, and thus not backed by state threat of violence, imprisonment, etc., for failure to comply, it would be less objectionable, but still come with a variety of problems, as there would always be "BI allocators" (e.g. BI policy or BI core developers, whose decisions affect groups or populations) and corporate or autonomous actors whose interests would automatically disregard those of individuals and collectively organized resistance entities (COREs)). I consider that these concerns, which I think l. has properly identified and which I also echo here, apply to http://groupcurrency.org/ and other ideas which are similar in concept. As l. correctly stated, "(BI) will create a future where nobody is willing to revolt, and the state is in even further reaching control." I would propose as a better system than BI would be a truly voluntary system (that does not include BI, but which would allow people to conduct any sort of transactions they like) where people have the opportunity to choose what sort of direction they want their resources to go while also opening the door to helping as many people as possible in the context of their transactions ~ without relying upon statism, violence, or use of force. In the coming days, please see https://bytecoin.org/ where there will soon be some updates relative to this very notion (two use cases of ABIS (http://abis.io) in BCN), to be in the 1.0.8 graphic wallet version, currently scheduled for release on Sep 29 or 30, 2015. (This version may possibly end up coming out a bit later, as date of release is estimated, thus keep your eyes peeled.) - -O Lodewijk andré de la porte:
2015-09-18 18:33 GMT+02:00 grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>:
Some balancing is needed, so we talk of BI, wealth leveling, universal healthcare, education, etc. This is natural control, happens when puppeteers make up 1% of 99% puppeted. As in history, if left unbalanced too long or deep, the slaves revolt and reboot.
This is one possible outcome -- but this is FAR from a revolt.
Just as likely is the outcome where Basic Income cattle is herded into cheap everything arrangements, where they're offered "fun and fulfilling" work for non-market pay. These humans will be entirely economically detached. The overlords will reap their Basic Income, and allow them to live month by month. (note: this already happens, you walk in a Hyundai/Samsung build appartment block, where Lotte runs all the supermarkets, and all the entertainment is provided by CJ, Koreans don't fear big-corps, so they don't hide it, but I think this is probably true in many places of the world)
Or, as in the amazing Cloud Atlas, we will create a caste-like society with "producers", "consumers" and perhaps some other groups ("politicians"? "Celebrities"?).
We may move from 99% to 99.9% puppets. It's just a way to generalize the population, to silence the masses, to present happiness and freedom to be guaranteed for all. Without alarm the watchers will turn to sleep, and under that dark moon the world will change.
Simply put, it solves some problems but not all of them. BI can potentially worsen the situation.
I think the immediate gain of guaranteed personal freedoms; freedom from labor, freedom to self-improve, freedom to perform altruism, freedom to perform art, and yes, even freedom to party, are worth a great deal. Yet, it will create a future where nobody is willing to revolt, and the state is in even further reaching control.
It also just upsets my minimal-government-preference somewhat. I just don't like the idea of people living off of money I earned. It only makes sense because money is already an abstract and perverted item, and because basic needs will soon drop much further in their cost. (Especially if cheap living becomes a greater priority)
- -- http://abis.io ~ "a protocol concept to enable decentralization and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good" https://keybase.io/odinn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWANPQAAoJEGxwq/inSG8C7kEH/isEUGX5uI+yNGvT+y9KAKIl cm5IQ4JyQD/h50E6NEp5+AzbvE4e3fZHimX6x8FmvX+cO+QIaD/1KiXXscHio0dP e8WmSJb133H1OIM3pYlHT/TrBrPEcoIIthRiVSVQZ287G/QmziLlDJYF4sntZLyQ Ql7VBtcYuoyQpraa2Lo0bHgTbjmhQ5nSs3HjosONkQOfsX6ag2Mtlde91hie1RVP k1vBKrhlJP4b/ZFkh3TRX6ID1JtIDdDjNH8rP3TttUpN2wSSMZkZ/V2buyCwMNZm 5tlkotmdXbt6m003N2X0+xzuCNVc+4WezxBjY61Z7Sb1tWku97xpYaTm0dEusD4= =Tr2s -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----