as long as we have our tinfoil hats on, one data point to keep in mind here is to remember that USGov, despite having many uniform policies, is also shot through with warring fiefdoms and turfs.

Snowden and Michael Hayden both have the odd career path CIA - NSA. To say that is unusual is to make an enormous understatement. we are usually told, "once CIA, always CIA." you can't "quit." and there are hundreds of stories over 50+ years of history to suggest this.

CIA and NSA have often been thought not to be on the same page, largely because NSA is military and CIA is civilian (or whatever special/uber designation it has at this point). CIA sees itself as entitled to operate much *more* lawlessly than NSA.

it is not hard to imagine scenarios where CIA might want to weaken NSA capabilities in part via public embarrassment. and one involved in the plot could even go public with his statements about how damaging the leaks are. convenient! 

our noble leaker(s) would not even necessarily need to know how it was possible to grab so much information without being stopped/noticed.

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Seth <list@sysfu.com> wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:16:21 -0800, Jason Richards <jjr2@gmx.com> wrote:

OK, I'll bite: why? What benefit does the US govt get from the information leaked by Snowden?

The way this question is worded frames the debate to an extent. To me, using the phrase 'the US Govt' implies a monolithic entity with coherent motives.

It does not leave room for explanations involving fedgov internecine info-warfare for example.

So the US government seems to have said "we do things you don't want us
to, but if you use proven, open source crypto you're reasonably
secure." The only benefit I can see would be if they could break that
crypto and wanted people to have a false sense of security by using
that easily broken crypto.

My tinfoil hat isn't that thick. I don't buy it. So what are the other
benefits?

Just throwing some ideas out:

* Terrorize disenfranchised members of the population into the cyber-fetal position. Self-censor accordingly and don't get too uppity, submitizen!

* Make it clear for any potential rivals to deep state power who 'didn't get the memo' that their every move is being watched, cataloged, recorded and stored in perpetuity.

* Frame the debate. Never ask the fundamental question of whether the surveillance state should exist or not. Keep the discussion focused on 'how much' surveillance.

* Throw up a fog of dis-information consisting of yesterdays obsolete capabilities, which by themselves are enough to stun even the tinfoil hat brigade. Mobilize interesting targets into adopting defenses against the obsolete attacks, until they think they are safe and can let their hair down again. Immediately begin harvesting juicy new intel via unrevealed nextgen attacks.

* Inflict political pain on rival agencies and political enemies

Anyone else?

Let the paranoia flow...