i was clicking through windows and landed on this one by accident when i started talking since i used to think ELF was cool (leslie pickering was targeted by the fbi for a very long time from publishing ecosabotage media thinking it was legal and forthright to do so, and successfully FOIA'd the records showing this, getting validation of extreme weirdness; the records showed how he data on him was falsely presented to make him appear to be a violent terrorist, and partly documented coercion of others to disrepute him) and engaged the term luddite, i bantered the conversation topic starting luddite, but didn't read up the thing that hit was when there was a long delay with nobody talking when we reflected professor rat's content around finding anarchism, death threats, and gambling economies mentions the stalled bot at 3:45; the reply maybe shows some of the messaging around automated influence has been successful i guess i start focusing on meno-sanark around 3:50 and after mentioning finding the community via professor rat, there's a long pause at 4:04 where meno-sanark mysteriously pulls a concept similar to those of pr's on this list, and then nobody says anything. at all. it feels like something preventing exposure of me to any influence to try to gain a better hold, and in me my alter roughly assumes that and participates. [i often stimulate situations that make it struggle a little, as a habit, as we know.] 2/20/2023, 3:28:09 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): rocinante: i like the vibe here 2/20/2023, 3:28:18 PM - rocinante (IRC): nice 2/20/2023, 3:28:19 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): dont get me started on anarvhist owned businesses 2/20/2023, 3:28:55 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): ... by russian emigrants in georgia 2/20/2023, 3:31:13 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): how do i start a luddite collective 2/20/2023, 3:31:15 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): wait this isnt google 2/20/2023, 3:31:59 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): by luddite i mean i want to revert to roughly 1997 2/20/2023, 3:32:11 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): or 1897 im not really fussy 2/20/2023, 3:32:16 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): 1984 2/20/2023, 3:32:16 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): Find friends. 2/20/2023, 3:32:44 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): meno-sanark: luddites didn't mind machines 2/20/2023, 3:32:53 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): most of them were skilled workers 2/20/2023, 3:33:00 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): they just didn't want to get fired 2/20/2023, 3:33:01 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): ik 2/20/2023, 3:33:09 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): ah 2/20/2023, 3:33:25 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): ur right to correct me though im using luddite in the vulgar sense 2/20/2023, 3:33:36 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): so, elections are undemocratic and suck, especially where i live... but i still want to play this game 2/20/2023, 3:34:06 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): i doubt if it's possible to build a movement in just one city district 2/20/2023, 3:34:20 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): that doesn't make any sense 2/20/2023, 3:34:21 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): google murray bookchin bro 2/20/2023, 3:34:34 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): im not sure what u mean by movement 2/20/2023, 3:34:46 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): probably most people here would say you can easily start a group of ppl doing uh 2/20/2023, 3:34:54 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): mutual aid or dual power or whatever u want to call it 2/20/2023, 3:34:55 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): sex 2/20/2023, 3:35:02 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): yes something like that 2/20/2023, 3:35:19 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): i dont think running for election is going to help you set up a food stall 2/20/2023, 3:35:53 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): idk what your goals are though. if u have goals that are expressed through city council legislation then feel free 2/20/2023, 3:36:17 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): What are your thoughts on the term neo-luddite? 2/20/2023, 3:36:37 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): what does being a neo luddite entail 2/20/2023, 3:36:40 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): i want some politization of a deeply apolitical place with atomized population 2/20/2023, 3:36:42 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): does it mean being a luddite, but now 2/20/2023, 3:36:59 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): Let us say, using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Luddism as the reference to define it. 2/20/2023, 3:36:59 PM - novatore (IRC): ^ Neo-Luddism or new Luddism is a philosophy opposing many forms of modern technology. The term Luddite is generally used as a pejorative applied to people showing technophobic leanings. 2/20/2023, 3:37:09 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): thats me fr fr 2/20/2023, 3:37:18 PM - xloem: luddite is not just pejorative 2/20/2023, 3:37:19 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): im so neo-luddite i go to church 2/20/2023, 3:37:34 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): I think the description and what he page conveys has issues. I cannot articulte it well though. 2/20/2023, 3:37:42 PM - xloem: i recommend neo-luddite for people who are both addicted to technology and dislike it, to explain some of the hyprocrisy 2/20/2023, 3:37:51 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): >Neo-Luddism or new Luddism is a philosophy opposing many forms of modern technology.[1] 2/20/2023, 3:38:19 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): Is an anti-abortionist a neo-luddite for opposing the technology of abortion? 2/20/2023, 3:38:28 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): elections and trade-unionism are the only things here that don't get you into jail (with exceptions) 2/20/2023, 3:38:32 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): i havent read any self described neo luddite texts & i dont want to make an argument based on a wiki article 2/20/2023, 3:38:39 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): im not anti technology 2/20/2023, 3:38:59 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): i think technology accelerates bad things 2/20/2023, 3:39:05 PM - xloem: the wiki article reads like a way to describe modern luddism while keeping the term without the prefix a historical thing 2/20/2023, 3:39:20 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): WoopWooop: yay, i was called a luddite by techbros xD 2/20/2023, 3:39:28 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): It disturbs me how Wikipedia informs so much of peoples thought yet to me at least this does not seem good or consistent in it's explanation of what a neo luddite supposedly is. 2/20/2023, 3:39:42 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): its ok 2/20/2023, 3:39:55 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): 99% of the people whose political vision comes from wikipedia will have abandoned it in 4 years 2/20/2023, 3:39:57 PM - xloem: it's just a luddite 2/20/2023, 3:40:16 PM - xloem: according to the article, neo-luddite == luddite, distinguishing only in the modern day, not the literal Luddites from history 2/20/2023, 3:40:41 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): meno-sanark, i think you under-estimate wikipedia. Wikipdia is a important place where much of the young generation inform their understandings on things. 2/20/2023, 3:40:43 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): now let me tell u about neo-liberals... 2/20/2023, 3:40:52 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): It is an important reason to have an anarchist presence there. 2/20/2023, 3:41:15 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): yeah but i dont want wikipedia moderators informing the next generation to become anarcho syndicalists 2/20/2023, 3:42:19 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): nor twitter celebrities nor youtubers etc 2/20/2023, 3:42:32 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): id rather young people read the news 2/20/2023, 3:42:49 PM - rocinante (IRC): RT? le barf 2/20/2023, 3:43:19 PM - rocinante (IRC): meno-sanark - create anarchist media outlet like Agency and report on current events from anarchist perspective 2/20/2023, 3:43:21 PM - rocinante (IRC): ready... go! 2/20/2023, 3:43:51 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): i don't think that all workers have to dive into theory 2/20/2023, 3:43:58 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): simplification is fine for agitprop 2/20/2023, 3:44:18 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): <rocinante> meno-sanark - create anarchist media outlet like Agency and report on current events from anarchist perspective 2/20/2023, 3:44:22 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): I am attempting this currently. 2/20/2023, 3:44:46 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): issue 1 no 1 . the anarchist news corporation has splintered over the greek economic crisis 2/20/2023, 3:44:47 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): First, to create short one-three minute videos with just video or images with text overs. 2/20/2023, 3:45:01 PM - xloem: in #anarchism:matrix.org we started a tiny anarchy new technology bot. i got blocked around it but we made some progress. the infrastructure in such bots could do things like automatically edit wikipedia articles to ensure a minority view is included (or push for it to take over the article if it's sound). others are likely already doing such things. 2/20/2023, 3:45:05 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): rocinante: either 1) it will become opportunist 2) the state will ban it as a terrorist org 2/20/2023, 3:45:19 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): And second to create a ones a little longer in the similar style but using Text to Voice with some machine learning stuff to get a natural sounding news-reader. 2/20/2023, 3:45:42 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): xloem this is surely already being done on a larger scale 2/20/2023, 3:45:55 PM - xloem: yeah but not for anarchism 2/20/2023, 3:46:02 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): exactly 2/20/2023, 3:46:05 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): It will mostly be surface level stuff, so to go in to some detail but mostly just to inform people, short enough to be youtube-shorts or to be watched on twitter without sound and so on. 2/20/2023, 3:46:35 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): good luck introducing minority opinions on any geopolitical issue contrary to nato gaols 2/20/2023, 3:46:37 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): goals* 2/20/2023, 3:46:38 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): same thing 2/20/2023, 3:46:55 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): Just choose your battles. 2/20/2023, 3:47:17 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): I think this media stuff has potential. You have all seen similar videos put out by MSM, yes? 2/20/2023, 3:47:18 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): WoopWooop: all "algorithms" are manually curated 2/20/2023, 3:47:41 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): youtube likes to push conservative content onto everyone 2/20/2023, 3:47:58 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): not necessarily 2/20/2023, 3:48:11 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): Learning video editing on old and bad hardware has been the main challenge. And writing non verbosely so as to fit in boxes on the screen. It is just practice currently. 2/20/2023, 3:48:33 PM - xloem: hmm not expecting your reply. this doesn't seem hard to me. i have a dissociated identity from targeted political brainwashing last decade that is making further work very very hard, but if somebody does not have this and has patience to help us, it's the kind of thing where you could do it in a way nobody would really notice significantly since everybody else is doing it, and it could really help. 2/20/2023, 3:48:48 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): media should be publically onwed 2/20/2023, 3:48:53 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): CyberTailor, I do not find such a defeatist attitude useful. There are examples of leftist content on video sharing websites, many that reach very high views. 2/20/2023, 3:48:55 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): to allow any pluralism 2/20/2023, 3:49:10 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): such leftist content on video sharing website is SHIT 2/20/2023, 3:49:17 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): WoopWooop: i'm a doomer, so i'm gonna doom 2/20/2023, 3:49:43 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): <meno-sanark> such leftist content on video sharing website is SHIT 2/20/2023, 3:49:44 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): theres only 1 way to revolution and its organising banner drops 2/20/2023, 3:49:49 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): That's the big problem. A lot of it is simply bad. 2/20/2023, 3:50:07 PM - xloem: meno-sanark is good at jokes 2/20/2023, 3:50:13 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): meno-sanark: banners do not organize people 2/20/2023, 3:50:18 PM - xloem: i would be able to work on a media platform based on those jokes ;p 2/20/2023, 3:50:17 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): :( 2/20/2023, 3:50:19 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): :^) 2/20/2023, 3:50:30 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): Submedia experimented with those quick short videos i think for twitter and facebook, I need to find them all where ever they are archived. 2/20/2023, 3:50:38 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): theyre on twitter 2/20/2023, 3:50:46 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): the submedia anarchy robot annoys me terribly 2/20/2023, 3:51:08 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): I got a little bit more used to it the last episode or two but they're phasing it out I think. 2/20/2023, 3:51:19 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): maybe this wont go down well but this is genuinely sincere 2/20/2023, 3:51:21 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): The humour is different is the main thing for me often. 2/20/2023, 3:51:24 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): what youre describing is pravda 2/20/2023, 3:51:35 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): which would be good 2/20/2023, 3:51:46 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): iskra > pravda 2/20/2023, 3:51:48 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): you cant win in this "media climate " against the big boys 2/20/2023, 3:52:12 PM - xloem: <@irc_meno-sanark:riot.anarchyplanet.org "you cant win in this "media clim..."> it is easy to win, say the big boys are your boss 2/20/2023, 3:52:15 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): this is why i want iran to fund my new wave movies 2/20/2023, 3:52:21 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): I don't really care about winning. 2/20/2023, 3:52:34 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): precisement 2/20/2023, 3:52:56 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): I just want to create, and if so, bring eyes to the struggles of our comrades. 2/20/2023, 3:53:06 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): my view is that i should wait for ww3 to start before i make decisions about what to do 2/20/2023, 3:53:20 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): >"3" >"start" etc 2/20/2023, 3:53:29 PM - xloem: it's important to dissociate and support people who are trying to help, it makes ww3 a little less violent 2/20/2023, 3:54:08 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): its only a matter of time before theres a much more permanent overt security state 2/20/2023, 3:54:42 PM - xloem: there's been one since the dawn of time it's called human instincts, we take down every single empire 2/20/2023, 3:54:57 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): there are no prerequisites for ww3 yet 2/20/2023, 3:55:13 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): the reason im locally a bit of a pariah is bc i dont see the use of Doing Anarchy in the current climate 2/20/2023, 3:55:27 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): it wont last and lots of it will come back to bite /comrades/ 2/20/2023, 3:55:28 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): be gay do crimes 2/20/2023, 3:56:10 PM - xloem: one thing i've appreciated about the anti-anarchism politics in some areas is that they help people learn about anarchy at all. they're part of how i found anarchyplanet. 2/20/2023, 3:57:49 PM - WoopWooop (IRC): How do you mean? 2/20/2023, 3:58:06 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): the good thing about the state is it motivates people not liking the state 2/20/2023, 3:58:45 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): i think there wont be any progress until the chips fall 2/20/2023, 3:59:15 PM - xloem: i was on a targeted loosely-anarchic mailing list where anarchy messages were intermixed with death threats and insults to members and shit. i clicked through the anarchy messages and some were from here. i've learned about all sorts of anarchist stuff by following these disgustingly-wrapped references. 2/20/2023, 3:59:18 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): if things continue the way they are and conservatives take the lead on every current event that invovles state overreach im going to die 2/20/2023, 3:59:32 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): thats awesome lol 2/20/2023, 3:59:34 PM - CyberTailor (IRC): prostate 2/20/2023, 4:04:52 PM - meno-sanark (IRC): i wish there were high speed gambling markets for everything that could possibly occur on earth 2/20/2023, 4:14:59 PM - sophieactual (IRC) joined the room