On 09/03/2016 05:48 PM, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

On 9/3/16 5:00 PM, Razer wrote:

On 09/03/2016 11:41 AM, grarpamp wrote:

"The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing
cryptography and its effect on society."

That's why I'm here. I'm on the 'society' end of that dyad.

Just in case it REALLY matters to Juan (hereafter known as 'the troll')
to know what my interest in the list is, and further, for 'the troll's
information one of the personal influences I named, Herbert Marcuse,
whose work precedes cryptography as social influence, would have fucking
well discussed it. Further, the Marxists of his time, the political
inclination 'the troll' accuses me of adhering to, rejected Marcuse. It
was an Anarchist... Abbie Hoffman, who is the only person of the times
afaict who understood WTF Marcuse (and McLuhan) was talking about and
put it into effect in his activism.

An interesting Townshend quote relative to Abbie:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/opinions/bergen-1970s-terrorism/index.html

Townshend shouted "Fuck off! Fuck off my stage!"
Townshend later said that while he actually agreed with Hoffman on
Sinclair's imprisonment <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration>,
he would have knocked him offstage regardless of the content of his
message, given that Hoffman had violated the "sanctity of the stage,"
i.e., the right of the band to perform uninterrupted by distractions
not relevant to the show. 

I like that: "right of the band to perform uninterrupted by distractions
not relevant to the show."

That's OK a few weeks later UAW/MF threatened to burn the Fillmore East
to the ground with Graham's HA bouncer inside. A VERY REAL ACTIONABLE
THREAT, and for the next few months, on Wednesday night, there was Free
Music at the Fillmore East. Name acts in the alt rock world came to play.

You see Stephen in the REAL WORLD, you win some and lose some and
honestly, even Abbie thought he might get clobbered for getting up there
but you know he felt the NEED to do it Sinclair was a *friend* of his
being victimized by the authorities and stalked NSA style by various
government agencies ( was too... hence my ongoing interest in
(x)security), and he did it.

If he hadn't you'd probably refer to him as a coward instead of a
'disruptor'... Right Stephen? Because you're full of shit.

What have you done for anyone EVER that put your safety on the line?

Are you a vet? Fuck you then babykiller. Ever gone to an antiwar protest
and faced down a wall of cops because you believe it's right? WHO THE
FUCK ARE YOU to second guess, out of ignorance, other people's motivations?

FYI, because I know you never knew fuck squat about him, Hoffman got his
start as a Freedom Rider. Later he was the Northeastern marketer for
"Freedom House". A Black self-help collective operating in the South
selling crafts in self support.

That's when he saw "Hippies" and set about turning people who were
pretty much hedonists and apolitical, into hard core antiwar
anti-imperialist activists, with humor. He scammed the YMCA into paying
the lease on the Cooper Square Free Store where he organized for Chicago

What the fuck have you ever done to influence anyone, except a boss, for
some self-serving purpose dude?

You're right in there with Juan, in some philosophically perfect
political world, where things happen 'just so'. Well things DON'T always
happen 'just so'. Sinclair could have easily met the same fate in jail
as Sam Melville (who I knew btw), or Fred Hampton, and if one of his
friends was wiling to get clobbered to spread that word, again WHO THE
FUCK ARE YOU to say:

"I like that".

Besides, Hoffman got more publicity for John Sinclair from that outcome
than if he's been allowed to shout it.

But you're most likely to ignorant to understand why that might be the case.

Rr

I was just looking at this history of anarchism, terrorism, etc.: Seems
a lot like what some of the philosophokiddies are spewing toward.  But
it's all been done before.  The points have been made, some adjustments
were incorporated.  After a good hard neo-con swing, swinging the other
way quite a bit.  But a lot has been absorbed and learned, so not quite
so simplistic.  Anyway, mostly off topic.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/28/opinions/bergen-1970s-terrorism/index.html
http://rfrancocsp.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-terrorists-of-1970s.html
http://www.sbs.com.au/programs/Seventies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

In Weatherman theory "oppressed peoples" are the creators of the
wealth of empire, "and it is to them that it belongs." "The goal of
revolutionary struggle must be the control and use of this wealth in
the interest of the oppressed peoples of the world." "The goal is the
destruction of US imperialism and the achievement of a classless
world: world communism"

The philosophokiddie cyperpunks are thoroughly punked and parodied in
Mr. Robot:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-creator-of-mr-robot-explains-its-hacktivist-and-cult-roots

Rr

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

shit and get down to business on analysing political philosphies, to
find practical approaches for our modern societies full of schooled

This list is *not* for that, and it's not a list to longtalk food recipes,
or anything else either. Lack of moderation is not license for people
to come here and setup their own offtopic shops, grossly, willfully
and continually disrespecting what it says on the tin and the history
of the list long before you [1], to the tune of many tens to hundreds
of messages per month, especially without tying it into that.
If you want to longtalk anything other than that to the point
that the charter would need a whole new section just for you,
GO FIND OR MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING LIST FOR THAT.

[1]
"The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing
cryptography and its effect on society."
There are reasonable relateds within the realm of "cypherpunk" to include *its*
computing, tools, privacy, surveillance, law, news, literature / art / society,
hacking / making, organizations and projects, politics, tech, science,
solutions,
crime, etc, etc.

The occaisional short lived foray under self regulation and restraint into
untied topics of possible interest to readerbase might be considered ok,
however NOT to the extent that it's been abused ongoing.

If you're wondering why the "thousands" of people on the list
aren't "analysing political philosophies" with you, it's because
YOU'RE FUCKING OFFTOPIC, THEY DON'T WANT TO, and
they've BLOCKED YOUR ASS.

But for new people hoping to find a real or even passable cypherpunk
list, and before even joining and blocking you, but just looking over
archives, your noise, and the angry abusive trolls, kills it for them.

Have some respect for that.
The lot of you.
Or get off here.

sdw