-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 04/03/2014 03:49 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
Do capitalists upset you?
CAPITALISTS have no concept of reality and are completely self serving yes that is upsetting to my sensibilities and consciousness
Which is *precisely* why I would trust information provided to me by a capitalist than that provided to me by an idealist.
i am a fucking anarchist which by the words you use in your writing that point to your low level concepts - you probably have no clue about
you are a capitalist - making frames for others to fit your fucking lame ass argument - pathetic
Actually, Cari, I've done a pretty extensive foray into Anarchism. It's an interesting but, IMHO, completely unworkable system populated by people who dream of a better, freer world, but have no chance of actually creating it - not now at least. What turned me off about Anarchism were people like you. People who waved their moral superiority flag every chance they got and assumed that anyone who supported a different view than theirs was ignorant or didn't understand what Anarchy is. In a lot of cases, Anarchists are their own worst enemy.
A capitalist sees everything as a product that will either further his desire for success or hinder it. An idealist sees everything as a mission fitting within their narrow agenda. A capitalist has much more incentive to provide a good product (correct, accurate, information) than an idealist who's sole goal is to further an agenda. Both have their uses though and both can be manipulated to good and bad ends.
an anarchist DOES NOT generally have one goal - capitalists think that way anarchists are node based thinkers capitalist are monolithic thinkers and often frame things in a dualistic or black and white manner which is very christian religion in form and thought pattern
capitalism is an economic model that has severe ramifications for society it is no different than having a monarch really there is a degree of difference regarding poverty but ... i heard today that if you are dying of cancer in uganda you have a 10% chance of having access to morphine ... they give cancer patients paracetamol ... thats your great capitalism i find it disgusting
Actually, that /isn't/ capitalism. Why do you think what you read is
Well, Cari, from what I've seen from the Anarchist community, the main goal that anarchist have is to abolish the state. This, of course, is a means to an end (the end being personal freedom) but the goal seems to be nearly single-minded focus on abolishing the state. And yes, I know some anarchists will say 'some of us simply ignore the state' and that's true. But, in reality, the main 'collective' goal (and I use that term loosely) is to abolish the state. To confirm this, just talk to any anarchist and ask them what the biggest problem to humanity is. Most will stay 'the state'. How do you solve it? 'Work to abolish the state'. Seems pretty single minded to me. But, please, instead of ranting and wild arm-waving, educate me if I am wrong. I would certainly /love/ to see a workable, large scale, anarchistic plan. I admit I probably don't know as much about the philosophy as you do. But, instead of just angrily cursing, why not try to educate me? I know that's a bit harder than angry arm-waving and cursing but it's probably more productive. the case? Maybe it's because of deals cut between governments and corporations? Do you know what we call that intertwining? No, we don't call it capitalism. We call is /fascism/.
the careerist journalists laura poitras et al are capitalistic in every way - exploitive
I disagree. The careerist journalists are "crony capitalists" in every way.
listen i am an activist journalist making money / becoming famous like them off of journalism in the way they do it is not ok with me its not how i would ever in a million years do my work
And /that/ is one of the great things about capitalism: you can try different things. You don't have to be confined to one narrow model. You don't agree with it? Great! Go do something your way and nobody is likely to stop you (except the predatory crony capitalists, but I think we've established those aren't real capitalists, right?)
They know that, regardless of the accuracy of their information, the 'other side of the coin' will smooth things over and keep the public hooked on an inferior product. That's not a true capitalist.
i think your an idealist actually 'true capitalism' thats a theory
Perhaps I am. Just like a Utopian anarchistic society is a theory that's never been proven. It's a different way of thinking, each with positives and negatives. I think we're probably /both/ idealists in our own ways.
That's one of my main arguments with socialists and other non-capitalist believers:
BELIEVERS????????? LMAO
i dont believe in belief that is religious
You don't believe in the power of your anarchistic philosophy? Hmm, perhaps that's the problem then! I assume, being a journalist, you understand that words have multiple meanings and we use them withing 'contexts'. Using the word 'believe' in the context I did doesn't have religious connotations at all. But I bet you know that. It looks like you are upset and just lashing out at everything because we don't agree. That's alright. I've seen your posts here and know you're more intelligent than that. So, yes, you're a 'believer' or...at least...you should be.
they point to our current system and say 'see, it's exploitive and hurts people!' and it does. But that's not a true capitalist system. Will we ever actually have one? Doubtful. But what we have now is definitely not a good example.
i dont think you understand that capitalism is well beyond an economy - watch naomi klein
Oh I understand it very well. I suspect it's you, who's obviously stuck within a very narrow worldview, who may not understand it. I've read Ms. Klein and I like a lot of her work - I don't agree with all of it, but I like it. But you know as well as I do that she comes at the topic with a bias. Also, from what I've read, her main beef seems to be with globalization and the influence corporations have on governments and, thus, the people. Remember, we've already covered this: it's not capitalism but /fascism/ when you have that. Do you have any thing in particular by Ms. Klein you'd like me to read that may help 'educate' me? I'd be happy to give it a go. So far, I've only read "No Logo", "The Take", and "The Shock Doctrine". Anything else I should pick up?
Yep, saw this video series. Brilliant woman, great book. Still talking largely about fascism and not capitalism. I mean, sure, she uses the /word/ 'capitalism' but that's not what she's describing. She's talking fascism.
with capitalism the iraq invasion happened within its frame
black sites torture sites around the globe where conducted within the frame of capitalism > gitmo 'lives' inside the frame of capitalism
So, do you believe that the horrible things that happened in Iraq and GITMO wouldn't have happened if the corporations weren't involved? I agree that they probably wouldn't have happened on such a /massive/ scale simply because their would have been a manpower shortage but I suspect some of those 'true blue' soldiers wouldn't have had much of a problem picking up a chemical light and sticking it up someone's ass...or raping them. Were the naked pictures of prisoners at Abu Ghraib capitalism at work too? Oh, wait, those were soldiers, not businessment trying to make money.
i dont think you understand anarchy or anarchistic thought processies at all
I certainly admit that I don't understand it as much as /you/ do or many others who spend a good amount of their time researching and reading anarchistic thought. But I do have a good understanding of it. However, feel free to point me in the direction of some good educational material. I'll read it happily! I like exploring different thoughts. I actually /like/ the idea of anarchy, just like I like much of the ideas of socialism. But they both, IMHO, fall a bit off the mark. That might be an educational thing that can be fixed though so feel free to point me in the right direction. No sarcasm intended here, I am open to learning! Cypher -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTPdEAAAoJEFuutbL6JoJrTmkP/2sH2LYqKN620/tkbZOT0fjD /JBsbumLknFOUL7ZpYcfa+Nh+2SOLTOFDX7GxuUckbHnkUtjAZgrXKcB+aoMYbMp NOZrufIp4lcOZo7a/5DWRlU4gYRH0FtYxkpDP06lLxWDHFQ0vCujflrifGiMidPU Ln4ATUy/wcT+OBDk+l3bWvoH3N9M2HQ9Ib/VaIcoyK6QOKLCKlMuKu+ft2PPK1nz n9NPFyEFFkLzs7uJZh+s0UYPHAJSJbB0pd/IBQ3NA3U8DfJBbQmH9SWOmNTFTBdo z8CFCem4smbUvyn208HQ1dyDArY400GnOx2Y20bADB+YO0g62CSmKEshPhPSRmDG bI4LnyUICrJ0rRKU/FzQLCTEtWNeRGAY8JhbMgQVShpqfcWl4TTL745b+FEk04QO Ikpnb2k+1zuGa+lDi4Xp9Lv0fxSW3W0j+w+t9o+u+0K/fOWkF7Gx/uB9G0/oynOb /sFMsvaUOcx7a879bHa88rr4mH5L5puCjTOeAUBkyC39jxcTRFvLEw4Sai1Q9mEY ZODFhA1BSgVJungKYLpqevIIyVlsKJW9LK8+ov8i2WDF2ygq1EqI+3iOwoKxFfmC EO9XdHUYtGtPsQKqh5ldl7rGQWYxu3J+FatmVhwGKCEdVer+yP/f5gT1h4SjrHVp x67TKKhVf3r2CYcZyZmw =gX6E -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----