confidential & proprietary recently started burning messages after 24 hours which is sketchy imho i engaged a knee jerk banter habit. i think i might have learned this habit for this list not certain. neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:13 PM] my attitudes towards MS and Apple are basically the same; there are plenty of legitimate things to complain about, we don't need to come up with bullshit ones Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:13 PM] I like how you think neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:14 PM] idk I just try to live down here in the real world instead of in FSF/etc fantasyland neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:14 PM] capitalism is the problem, microsoft is a symptom ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:16 PM] Exactly this. ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:16 PM] And if you’re really going to be that dogmatic, why don’t you make your own entirely open source computer, rather than buying one made by a corporation? neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:17 PM] whining about dumb BS just makes it less likely that people will listen when you complain about actual problems neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:17 PM] pick ur battles people K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:18 PM] >_> neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:19 PM] the answer to this always boils down to "...cuz it would be shit" neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:19 PM] case in point https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:20 PM] round 2: still pretty shit https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:20 PM] about the best you can do is probably pinebook pro? which only gets away as blob-free on a technicality K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:21 PM] it's shit until the goonies stop beating you up so their bosses can keep setting higher prices, and then everybody installs your kernel on their android phones neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:22 PM] ahem wat by which i mean, "I understood those words but I am not at all sure what you mean" K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:23 PM] apple started in a garage microsoft started by ripping off apple linux is everywhere and behind corporate machine learning etc the novena is great it doesn't upload random snippets of your voice to the cloud to run arbitrary algorithms on what you say Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:24 PM] the first two things listed literally mean nothing neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] > microsoft started by ripping off apple I think you'll find microsoft started by pulling one over on IBM actually K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] ;P go peddle closed software elsewhere Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] hey they copied Xerox too K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] you're probably right, i was thinking of the windows ui neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] EVERYONE copied xerox because xerox WANTED everyone to copy them ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] “copied” snickers neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] because xerox upper management were entirely uninterested in letting them actually make a vaguely consumer product ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] And yet you use the closed-source Telegram messaging service. Curious K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] a dead friend recommended it to me because it was popular and had an open-source cli client that worked at the time neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] double standards? in MYYYYYYYYYYYYYY open source evangelism?! Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] weird take, the group name is literally “Confidential & Proprietary” K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] i just used it to message her, but now here i am on c&p neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] also at what point did I peddle any software K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] dude K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] if you want to go all the way and make open hardware Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] you didn’t do the FSF circlejerk thing :(( K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] join the thousands of people doing so with the help of leaks shared on this telegram channel neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] I like that you think I don't do that Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] no I said didn’t neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] nono that was @ k Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] like just now Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] O Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] LMAO Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] oops neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:29 PM] I do make open hardware Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:29 PM] what open hardware do you make neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:30 PM] and I spend quite a bit of my non-wageslave time (and some of my wageslave time tbh, remember stealing from ur employer is morally correct in a capitalist society) adding software support for semi-open hardware to things neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:30 PM] also adding open software support to closed hardware neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:30 PM] ok look i have adhd and most of what I've done so far is unfinished and/or unreleased BUT neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:31 PM] https://neggles.github.io/electronics Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:31 PM] nice neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:32 PM] idk why there's this obsession with absolutes? perfect is the enemy of better neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:33 PM] we can praise companies when they do things right while still admonishing them for what they do wrong neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:34 PM] especially since a lot of the time they literally had no choice; most wifi router vendors are doing secure boot nonsense because the FCC won't certify their shit if they don't, for example neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:34 PM] same w/ wifi card firmware blorbs, releasing sources gets them in trouble especially with modern wifi radios which are basically 2.4/5/6GHz band SDRs with ludicrous capabilities neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:42 PM] do I wish things were vastly more open? of course I fucking do, but they aren't, and there are reasons they aren't, many of which are beyond the control of the company/companies responsible for making the hardware. This is the world we live in, a world ruled by greedy billionaires, lawyers, politicians, and an uninformed, purposefully uneducated, reactionary public who largely don't give a shit. We would all be better off if things were different, even the billionaires would be, but they're too fuckin' dumb to see it. now you can sit around wasting time and energy whining about how we should already be over the luxury gay space communist finish line, or you spend that time and energy looking for ways to push things in the right direction and making whatever difference you can which sounds more productive? neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:42 PM] ok im done being a condescending preachy asshole just ugh, u kno? K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] it’s inspiring how things are so billionaired that a single individual changes the world on a regular basis neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] no they don't neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] they get the credit, because they steal it Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] on a _regular_ basis…? neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] elon musk did nothing on his own, jeff bezos did nothing on his own, steve jobs did nothing on his own, <insert name> did nothing on their own, elizabeth holmes did nothing at all K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] seems random to me but people seem to appreciate stealing just as much neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] see: "an uninformed, purposefully uneducated, reactionary public" K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] i mean like linus torvalds or this chat and all the stuff in between Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] wait neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] if it hadn't been torvalds it would've been someone else Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] okay this is what I thought you meant Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] lol neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] and right from day one he had other people helping Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] maybe openbsd would run the world then neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] BSD would probably run the world if not for AT&T et. al. and lawyers yes neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:47 PM] arguably that'd be worse, given how unrestrictive the BSD licenses are K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:47 PM] around 1999 a popular computer game series went defunct it was the end i went on the forums and said i was making a fan-based sequel and had started development and to contact me if anybody wanted to help over a hundred people contacted me and we started a huge project but if i had never made that post and done that initial work it would have never happened it would have just been a corporate product neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:48 PM] consider that any of those other hundred people could've been the one to do it as well i'm sure several of them had already had the idea neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:48 PM] if it hadn't been you it would've been someone else K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] few people are both software developers and community leaders K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] but it’s not hard K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] you just have to actually do the work, and the outreach, both neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] yes, anyone can be if they decide they want to Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] it’s easy to decide to K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] so few people do that we have linus torvaldses everywhere Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] it’s hard to actually do it for most people Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] did I say it was easy? :P neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] it's not neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] but there are enough people on this rock - were even then - that someone else would've done it, if it was worth doing Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] that was a response to this :) K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] but what i mean is that a single person can change the course of history neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] a single person can appear to change the course of history yes K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] by being the person to actually tell chatgpt to make an opensource copy of itself in a classic ai form, and going everywhere and giving it to everybody Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] uh neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] that's not how that works Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] this is a joke right? neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:52 PM] fucking americans i swear to god neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:52 PM] that deeply-ingrained concept of "you're special" and "one <person> can change the world" is exactly what's kept you all where you are neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] you're not special, linus torvalds isn't special, maia isn't special, I'm not special neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] that doesn't matter one fuckin bit mind u but K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] it’s a temporary state of reality until the massive sheeping of everyone reduces so it isn’t so easy neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] mmk this is a pointless discussion K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] and until somebody does that, the world is not yet changed Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:54 PM] america, land of the special neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:54 PM] everybody is special, nobody is special, both these things are true and neither of them matter Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] “you’re special so you deserve more than other people” neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] everyone who appears to be a single special individual is actually just the one who has been assigned responsibility and credit for the work of thousands, even millions of others neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] I mean christ look at fucking Musk Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] no!!! he sent a car to mars!!!!!!!!! neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] man is clearly an abject fucking moron Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] he did it, himself Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] 10000% Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:54 PM] “don’t let anyone tell you you’re not special. you are!” neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:56 PM] he was in the right place at the right time with the right puddle of blood money neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:56 PM] if it hadn't been him it would've been someone else neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:56 PM] it doesn't take a genius to work out that you can probably build a rocket engine comparable to the RL-10 for less than the $20m they cost neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:57 PM] nor does it take a genius to work out "lithium batteries will likely reach a level where electric vehicles are practical inside the next 5-10 years" K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:57 PM] i have an ongoing project to design a rocketship made out of toiletpaper (hrm off topic, might be destabilizing, thanks for the banter) neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:58 PM] (and it certainly doesn't take a genius to halfway torpedo twitter) neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:58 PM] Gwynne Shotwell deserves more credit for SpaceX than Musk does Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:59 PM] how dare you say that about our lord and savior elon musk Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:59 PM] he deserves all the credit because he’s a literal genius! Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:59 PM] and definitely did not fake a few degrees K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] i’d agree with you but people do more stuff if you give them credit, it’s nice to have stuff done. it’s also risky and hard. Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:00 PM] seems more like brute force to me tbh neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:00 PM] but there are undoubtedly countless others who could've done the same, and at least some of them with a bit less in the way of pissing off the SEC neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] ehh i am lead to believe he's not a completely useless engineer, and he clearly made at least a few good choices at some point neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] but neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] he's not special neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] mostly he got lucky Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] well he sold a piece of software 30 years ago so yeah neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] bezos got lucky, gates got lucky, jobs got lucky a solid half a dozen times neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] torvalds got lucky! neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:00 PM] he's not entirely unskilled, he got some of the right people into the right places at the right time and pointed them in a somewhat correct direction Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] /s neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] welp neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] das just how it be sometimes K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] note that it’s luck*working your butt off when you’re doing the work yourself K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] but it’s generally fun to do that if you’re succeeding and appreciated Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:06 PM] are death threats a form of appreciation? Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:06 PM] Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:07 PM] it’s the ultimate form of appreciation neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:07 PM] if you're doing something to get admiration and appreciation for it you're doing it wrong Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] curl dev did not get lucky :( neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:11 PM] was torvalds doing it for appreciation? neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:11 PM] appreciation is nice, sure, but it's not the goal neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:11 PM] https://lwn.net/2001/0823/a/lt-announcement.php3