From eugen@leitl.org Thu Sep 19 03:37:32 2013 From: Eugen Leitl To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Reimbursement of Exit Operators Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 09:37:29 +0200 Message-ID: <20130919073728.GO10405@leitl.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3874206696885636753==" --===============3874206696885636753== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Forwarded message from tor(a)t-3.net ----- Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:29:26 -0400 From: tor(a)t-3.net To: tor-relays(a)lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-relays] Reimbursement of Exit Operators X-Mailer: SurgeWeb - Ajax Webmail Client Reply-To: tor-relays(a)lists.torproject.org Think bigger, say what? Certain of the world's biggest and most well-funded intelligence agencies hate personal privacy on the internet so much that they've been going to extreme efforts to destroy it. They are packet sniffing the NAPs and fiber backbones to pull out everything they can, they hacked/broke HTTPS, they are backdoored into the big content providers, they hacked the banking system, they are apparently 'in' some hardware crypto chips - the list goes on - They infiltrated the tech groups which were designing software and hardware and sabotaged their work, making their crypto be weaker/breakable and their systems easier to hack into. They use the vulnerabilities they created to their own ends. As of today, Tor appears to provide privacy, at least as far as the .onion sites goes. Maybe it even works for it's entire function of providing anonymous internet browsing. 'They' would definitely want to be IN this thing, because they either want to compromise it, or if that doesn't work well enough, destroy it. 'They' are known to infiltrate and be influential in getting what they want. Literally, they are professionals at this. 'Getting to know' the exit relay operators and identifying their bank accounts would help facilitate things when it came time for them to make their move. In the context of September 2013, this whole thing is scary. It was perhaps not scary in September of 2012, when we didn't know anything. Also. It makes me wonder things when, for example, you say "Think bigger" while pointing to a couple of potential dollars in someone's pocket. Safeguarding the operators of the exit relays is a bigger deal than chump change. I'm not making an honest accusation but, to the people who are the most vocal in approving of this - you don't work for the NSA, right? :) On Wednesday 18/09/2013 at 6:08 pm, Roger Dingledine wrote: > On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 08:10:25AM -0400, tor(a)t-3.net wrote: >> >> The Wau Holland Foundation can currently only >> reimburse via wire transfer. >> >> This seems to be end-of-story in terms of who, in the end, is >> ultimately getting liability/risk, and points to practically no >> chance at anonymity > > Think bigger -- _______________________________________________ tor-relays mailing list tor-relays(a)lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://ativel.com http://postbiota.org AC894EC5: 38A5 5F46 A4FF 59B8 336B 47EE F46E 3489 AC89 4EC5 --===============3874206696885636753== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" MIME-Version: 1.0 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuNC4xMiAoR05V L0xpbnV4KQoKaVFJY0JBRUJBZ0FHQlFKU09xbTRBQW9KRVBSdU5JbXNpVTdGSk5JUC9SRnlEbGpX MWhmdEhHNFdmME4wRUFJUQpzWTBWMzF2RjZrUDJzOE85dzRnaVAwcUFUemdKTnJhNnNSMi9vcVFK M2wwVUlsc1FpYmE0cXRGYnJzUjYvSnhlCk9VM3dqOTJ6RWlMVnpYUGxXTjdvMFJXTlJiY082L21N SDVOQ05kbEo2bGZQd1ZNY05Yb2pXRi9aZmxKcHBOQUsKbUxWaXpiaGdrNXkwK0d1a1NJOWRsczZj aGpEeE0xYmovQWJsejhuaGp1cmx1NWp4SUQ1bEZzOTJGQjUvaEp6QwpCem1rNzJZdFJWVUYvU0RV cXFLWjVJcWN3eVJQMkhYbEpRYmxKZmwxQmEydDZ4SEtDeXNQc1lENGJVOG9WS3E0CkZlZzdxQUFB aE82UE1qUklFY21mdnF6elJJTk9yY1NORm5ZcHp4T0tWdVgwMTVuU3QzT0dFbEFSdm03ZlRyVisK U0hucWtBSXgyWEpVSUl6K0VyVWtIUDlTU3FoTDljWktLOVRUMzh6d0hyZVhzRUNsM1lOdWNFblZP WHJndHUrQgpTUWRROXBNRnVpci9MTkJZZ3k5eWY2SmRWQ3J1WE1HUXRZc1FrYk9TMzV1YUhmWjVz bW5IMTU2Z0Q5Ym0yMnArCmtlWlRRU3BGUXcrdUdTUWw3WldwY2JlR3Zxa2UxVnpLVjZMbmdtWE5r Z1hrY2hsSmh2MXBJZXUyUFMrbjNKRm8KODFmV2E5ZXA3VWRKZ1VPNkt5ZWR6ZS93SHRBMjl2aGhN VG5vS2x2QTR0ai80WHNydmZPL2Vzd1M0VDhNeDdqVAp6WWlhcXRxVFZqUTVyUlZUSWV5eTJ4a25I N1RZb0RDMXJocTRvb08yK2p1ZVdYTm9FbGYzK3VMR1ZveS9sb2JOClBJMmFvcFBKc3MveEdYNkdY eGhFCj1KOThOCi0tLS0tRU5EIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQo= --===============3874206696885636753==--