Suppose you know someone who has been working for years on a novel. But he lacks confidence in his work and he's never shown it to anyone. Finally you persuade him to let you look at a copy of his manuscript, but he makes you promise not to show any of it to anyone else. Hopefully it is clear in this situation that no one is doing anything "evil". Even though he is giving you the document with conditions beyond those specified in the current regime of copyright, he is not taking advantage of you. Even though you hold the bits to his manuscript and he has put limitations on what you can do with them, he is not coercing you. You voluntarily accepted those conditions as part of the agreement under which you received the document. It should also be clear that it would be ethically wrong for you to take the manuscript and show it to other people. Even if you take an excerpt, as allowed under "fair use" exemptions to copyright protection, and include it in a document for commentary or review purposes, that would be a violation of your promise. This example demonstrates that when two people reach a mutual agreement about how they will handle some information, they are ethically bound by it even beyond the regulations of copyright law. And surely it is clear that no decisions by Congress or any other legislative or judicial body can change the ethics of this situation. In fact, it is absurd to look to Congress for guidelines on ethics! Surely everyone reading is aware that it is one of the least ethical bodies in existence. Those who look to Congress to justify breaking their promises are not looking for ethics, they are looking for excuses. Congress excels at providing those. The point is that this situation is exactly analogous to what might happen if you purchased a song or other information content by downloading, and restrictions were placed on how you could handle it as a condition of that purchase. One of the restrictions might be that you can make no more than 2 copies of the song for personal use. Another restriction might be that if you give a copy to someone else, you have to delete your copy. Such restrictions cannot be evil, any more than was the even more strict restriction imposed on the recipient in the book example above. Evil only exists when someone is forced to do something they don't want to. Offering a song or a book with conditions does not force anyone to do anything, because the offer can always be refused. There can be no evil in making someone an offer, even an unacceptably restricted one. In fact, making or accepting any kind of offer, with any restrictions which the parties choose, is a fundamental freedom which everyone here should fight to support. To say that people can only make or accept offers which some third party deems acceptable is a coercive infringement on people's liberty to make their own decisions and to control their lives. It is despotism of the worst sort. Third parties have no right to interfere in the agreements which others make.
On Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 03:10:07AM +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Suppose you know someone who has been working for years on a novel. But he lacks confidence in his work and he's never shown it to anyone. Finally you persuade him to let you look at a copy of his manuscript, but he makes you promise not to show any of it to anyone else.
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I agree with the Anonymous posters analysis. I would further elaborate with regard to current copyright related laws: - parties are free to enter into NDA or complex distribution and use contracts surrounding exchange of content or information generally as anonymous describes, and this is good and non-coercive - but that private contract places no burden on other parties if that agreement is broken and the content distributed anyway. This is exactly analogous to the trade secret scenario where once the trade secret is out, it's tough luck for the previous trade secret owner -- clearly it's no longer a secret. - where I find current copyright laws at odds with a coercion free society is in placing restrictions on people who did not agree to any NDA contract. ie. There are laws which forbid copying or use of information by people who never entered into any agreement with the copyright holder, but obtained their copy from a third party. - in a free society (one without a force monopoly central government) I don't think copyright would exist -- voluntary agreements -- NDAs of the form anonymous describes -- would be the only type of contract. - the only form of generally sanctioned force would be in response to violence initiated upon oneself. - if the media cartels chose to hire their own thugs to threaten violence to people who did not follow the cartels ideas about binding people to default contracts they did not voluntarily enter into, that would be quite analogous to the current situation where the media cartels are lobbying government to increase the level of the threats of violence, and make more onerous the terms of the non-voluntary contracts. (Also in a free society individuals would be able to employ the services of security firms protection services to defend themselves from the media cartels thugs, as the media cartels would not have the benefit of a force monopoly they have the lobbying power to bribe to obtain enforcement subsidies). Adam
-- On 5 Jul 2002 at 3:10, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Suppose you know someone who has been working for years on a novel. But he lacks confidence in his work and he's never shown it to anyone. Finally you persuade him to let you look at a copy of his manuscript, but he makes you promise not to show any of it to anyone else.
Hopefully it is clear in this situation that no one is doing anything "evil". Even though he is giving you the document with conditions beyond those specified in the current regime of copyright, he is not taking advantage of you. Even though you hold the bits to his manuscript and he has put limitations on what you can do with them, he is not coercing you. You voluntarily accepted those conditions as part of the agreement under which you received the document.
It should also be clear that it would be ethically wrong for you to take the manuscript and show it to other people. Even if you take an excerpt, as allowed under "fair use" exemptions to copyright protection, and include it in a document for commentary or review purposes, that would be a violation of your promise. This example demonstrates that when two people reach a mutual agreement about how they will handle some information, they are ethically bound by it even beyond the regulations of copyright law.
Let us make a more realistic supposition: Let us suppose instead he organized an entertainment where a lightly clad singer sang and danced, and showed that video on television interspersed with advertisments, and I then captured that video on my hard disk, deleted the ads, and put it on the internet. In that case, where is my promise? Doubtless I must have made it in the same moment of forgetfulness as I signed the social contract. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG bAhnMLd4HxDL/1pvlkk6Ga1VpR1eMM5jp1ff+rbD 2k/NTfC76YawZx8bnVYHGPHiRnNt5axoRlaDUDJP8
On Thu, 4 Jul 2002 jamesd@echeque.com wrote:
Let us make a more realistic supposition:
Let us suppose instead he organized an entertainment where a lightly clad singer sang and danced, and showed that video on television interspersed with advertisments, and I then captured that video on my hard disk, deleted the ads, and put it on the internet.
In that case, where is my promise? Doubtless I must have made it in the same moment of forgetfulness as I signed the social contract.
Nowadays, nowhere. And that is mostly because of copyrights. If there were no copyright laws, I bet you would have to sign all sort of things to get tv channels home. And yes, it would be quite a pain in the ass to do this way 'afterwords' when people already have tv's and expect them to work without doing anything. -- Mikko "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all And in the Darkness bind them."
participants (4)
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Adam Back
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jamesd@echeque.com
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Mikko Särelä
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Nomen Nescio