On Thursday, December 13, 2001, at 06:38 PM, Duncan Frissell wrote:
At 05:10 PM 12/13/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
Which is beside your point. Your statement was that the government didn't do ANY identification for ANY of the soldiers in WWII. Patently wrong. Quit trying to change the rules in the middle of the game.
AFTER the war started, not before. When the initial draft was executed it was for 21-25 year old males only. They were required to register so that the government knew who was getting drafted. That qualifies as 'identification' and is proof contrary to your assertion.
There's a difference between registering for the Draft or signing enlistment papers and proving your identity. I contend that proof of identity was not required for US military service in WWII. I'll investigate further and see what I can come up with about the enlistment process.
Seems to me there are more interesting things to spend time on than refuting Choate. Item: There are huge numbers of reported cases (no, I don't have URLs, but I have heard testimonials directly, for example) of guys who lied about their ages to enlist. (Some later rose high in the ranks...). This is hard to do if a birth certificate is "required." I take this as strong evidence that birth certificates were not universally required, probably not even _usually_ required. Item: Many hobos, drifters, and the like enlisted. Not a lot of them were in contact with their birth towns, or even knew where there birth towns were. I doubt many of them ever managed to get a copy of their birth certificates. Item: Assumed names were, and still are to some extent, common in America. I doubt many able-bodied men were turned down for military service just because they'd changed their name one or more times. Of course, in Choate Prime, the reality sometimes parallel to our own, but usually not, men routinely avoided the draft by the simple stratagem of not remembering where their mothers said they were born, thus making getting a birth certificate impossible. "Sorry, I have no idea where I was born. Momma says we moved around a lot. So I can't get a birth certificate. Be seein' ya!" --Tim May "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." --John Stuart Mill
On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Tim May wrote:
Item: There are huge numbers of reported cases (no, I don't have URLs, but I have heard testimonials directly, for example) of guys who lied about their ages to enlist. (Some later rose high in the ranks...). This is hard to do if a birth certificate is "required."
I didn't say a birth certificate was required. I said if you had one you were required to provide a copy. As usual twist the words...:( If you google you can actually find forms and such used since the Civil War online. They ask a variety of questions like mother, birthplace, age, etc.
Item: Many hobos, drifters, and the like enlisted. Not a lot of them were in contact with their birth towns, or even knew where there birth towns were.
Where's your evidence, or is this simply your opinion as well? It's easy to 'win' a discussion if you get to make up your 'facts'. How many of these hobbo's did you know personaly (considering you weren't even born then I'd guess nil).
Item: Assumed names were, and still are to some extent, common in America. I doubt many able-bodied men were turned down for military service just because they'd changed their name one or more times.
Whis is irrelevant since nobody but you has brought this up before.
Of course, in Choate Prime, the reality sometimes parallel to our own, but usually not, men routinely avoided the draft by the simple stratagem of not remembering where their mothers said they were born, thus making getting a birth certificate impossible. "Sorry, I have no idea where I was born. Momma says we moved around a lot. So I can't get a birth certificate. Be seein' ya!"
Again, nothing I said implied that at all. Typical CACL responce, attack the personality and to hell with the facts. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (2)
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Jim Choate -
Tim May