Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
At 09:47 PM 12/10/04 -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
Wardriving is also basically dead.
On the contrary. A recent article (zdnet IIRC) described a non-hacker visiting his father, and using a neighbor's connection accidentally. This is very common. My own non-tech father regularly finds other nets in his neighborhood, using default apps (not 'Stumbler, etc). Sure there are a handful of people that
do it, but the number is so small as to be irrelevant.
That 'wardrive' knowing its called that, yes. That do so accidentally, no.
Or consider a Napster-level popular app which includes mixing or onion routing.
Now we're back to the MixMaster argument. Mixmaster was meant to be a "Napster-level popular app" for emailing, but people just don't care about anonymity.
Mixmaster is the most godawful complex thing to use, much less administer, around. Even Jack B Nymble is complex. It needs a simple luser interface and something to piggyback servers on.
On 2004-12-11T06:48:41-0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 09:47 PM 12/10/04 -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote:
Now we're back to the MixMaster argument. Mixmaster was meant to be a "Napster-level popular app" for emailing, but people just don't care about anonymity.
Mixmaster is the most godawful complex thing to use, much less administer, around. Even Jack B Nymble is complex. It needs a simple luser interface and something to piggyback servers on.
Not necessarily. Mixmaster is trivial to use with Mutt. 1. Compile Mixmaster 2. Put the binary in some directory somewhere. 3. Configure Mutt with --with-mixmaster (sadly not enabled by default) 4. add the line 'set mixmaster="/location/to/bin/mixmaster"' to .muttrc 5. mkdir ~user/Mix/ 6. Add a script to crontab that does: cd ~user/Mix/ mv -f mlist.txt mlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/mlist.txt mv -f rlist.txt rlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/rlist.txt mv -f pubring.mix pubring.mix.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pubring.mix mv -f type2.list type2.list.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/type2.list mv -f pubring.asc pubring.asc.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pgp-all.asc mv -f pgp-all.asc pubring.asc 6.5. And run it once for good measure. 7. When sending email, at the summary page just before sending, hit 'M'.
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Justin wrote:
Not necessarily. Mixmaster is trivial to use with Mutt.
1. Compile Mixmaster 2. Put the binary in some directory somewhere. 3. Configure Mutt with --with-mixmaster (sadly not enabled by default) 4. add the line 'set mixmaster="/location/to/bin/mixmaster"' to .muttrc 5. mkdir ~user/Mix/ 6. Add a script to crontab that does:
cd ~user/Mix/ mv -f mlist.txt mlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/mlist.txt mv -f rlist.txt rlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/rlist.txt mv -f pubring.mix pubring.mix.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pubring.mix mv -f type2.list type2.list.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/type2.list mv -f pubring.asc pubring.asc.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pgp-all.asc mv -f pgp-all.asc pubring.asc
You just made my case for me. Joe Sixpack will not wtf you are talking about. Hell, half the RedHat users won't know either ("where's the RPM?"). -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
At 10:08 AM 12/11/2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Justin wrote:
Not necessarily. Mixmaster is trivial to use with Mutt.
1. Compile Mixmaster ..... You just made my case for me. Joe Sixpack will not wtf you are talking about. Hell, half the RedHat users won't know either ("where's the RPM?").
Joe Sixpack got lost at "Compile". It's still easier to use than the early versions of FreeS/WAN ("First do a clean compile of your kernel...") On the other hand, if you're using Mutt, you're already more complex than Joe Sixpack is likely to use. Also, rather than a virus installer, it'd be interesting if there were an anonymizer package built for Apache. Widespread anonymous web browsing would mean that simple web-based remailers would be easily usable. ---- Bill Stewart bill.stewart@pobox.com
Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Mixmaster is the most godawful complex thing to use, much less administer, around. Even Jack B Nymble is complex. It needs a simple luser interface and something to piggyback servers on.
Mixminion is a little better, but needs more market penetration and still has no good client integration. i2p is looking good, since out of the box it comes with proxy pop and smtp servers. The downside is that they proxy to a single mail provider in the i2p cloud. Also, communications outside the cloud isn't a high priority now. But the framework is building. However, both suffer from a J. 6pack problem, because to use either, you have to run a node. Jack B Nymble is complex because as you know, bidirectional pseudonymity is complex. It's the return channel implementation that causes the problems.
participants (5)
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Bill Stewart -
cluesink -
J.A. Terranson -
Justin -
Major Variola (ret)