CDR: Re: Treatment of subjugated people (and bagpipes)
ocorrain@esatclear.ie wrote:
It's very easy, from a post-religious perspective, to be nostalgic about paganism, since we understand almost nothing of it. Neo-pagan movements are generally comic, not in their internal ideas, but in the notion that they are somehow recapturing an old religion, a religion without scriptures or documents or a continuous tradition.
Humph, said the camel... indeed! Nonsense, says religionmonger. You obviously haven't researched the pagan world to much depth. Druids, for instance, have a strong, clear line going way back, as do Wiccans. Because of persecution by the God-damned church, they spent a long time underground, but there's never been a time when they weren't active and working. *You* understand nothing of it, and never will unless you could somehow convince some group to initiate you, which is unlikely. Scriptures and documents, dear one, play no part in earth and goddess centered religions. Shamans, for instance, are called personally by their spirits, taught by the same, etc., and it's all very much a personalized experience. Experiential religions have no need of scripture -- that's the bailiwick of the later, false, paternalistic, religions of the dominator cultures.
Nonsense, says religionmonger. You obviously haven't researched the pagan world to much depth.
I don't know if I'd call what you refer to below research. Fantasy would be closer to the mark.
Druids, for instance, have a strong, clear line going way back, as do Wiccans. Because of persecution by the God-damned church, they spent a long time underground, but there's never been a time when they weren't active and working.
I was under the impression we were talking about the era around 500AD, before the Inquisition, and not long after the Christians themselves were persecuted. I'm no skypilot, but the implied timelines you associate with Wiccans and Druids (of the modern sort) are, to say the least, somewhat confused.
You understand nothing of it, and never will unless you could somehow convince some group to initiate you, which is unlikely.
It's even more unlikely I would seek such an initiation.
Experiential religions have no need of scripture -- that's the bailiwick of the later, false, paternalistic, religions of the dominator cultures.
Into which scumble of badness you would no doubt throw Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and the philosophies thereof? Whereas your religion is based on handing down knowledge (without records or a literate culture) from mother to daughter. A mirror image of the apostolic succession, amusingly. I'll quote from Joyce's Ulysses: The cords of all link back, strandentwining cable of all flesh. That is why mystic monks. Will you be as gods? Gaze into your omphalos. Hello. Kinch here. Put me on to Edenville. Aleph, alpha: nought, nought, one. (p46) Does that sound like what you're on about? Guess what it's about. To turn centuries of folk knowledge persecuted by those who did not understand (not just priests, you know, peasants burnt their own out of fear as well) into a religion with a continuous link to pre-Christian, even pre-historical times, is an interesting hypothesis. It would take some proving, rather than a random spew about 'false' and 'paternalistic' , and especially 'later' religions. Coming from a country where Druids at least existed in historical times, I can tell you that the evidence suggests that Druids existed as lawmakers and counsellors. Their true heirs are in the lawcourts and in politics. Disappointing, no? All the best Tiarnan
At 08:34 PM 9/5/00 -0400, ocorrain@esatclear.ie wrote:
Coming from a country where Druids at least existed in historical times, I can tell you that the evidence suggests that Druids existed as lawmakers and counsellors. Their true heirs are in the lawcourts and in politics. Disappointing, no?
So, um, how do Druids feel about peer to peer file sharing :-)
participants (3)
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ocorrain＠esatclear.ie