-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- werewolf@io.org (Mark Terka) wrote:
I'm not sure what other people think of the "trustworthiness" of various remailers, but when chaining I usually bounce it through two, AND the first leg goes offshore to hacktic which seems superably reliable. After that, it goes to either wimsey or ghio. Be better to hacktic and then another Euro-mailer before going back to North America, but what other European remailers are as reliable as hacktic?
There might be at least one good reason for NOT going overseas on that first leg. The NSA's charter restricts it to international operations. By making that first leg a foreign one, you've made your transmission, the one with your address visible, fair game for them. I don't know how closely they obey the "rules", given their inherent lack of accountability, but if you forced them to break the rules to monitor you, they might at least be a bit more hesitant to use the info against you. -- Diogenes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLkzWp+Rsd2rRFQ1JAQHnrgQAhW/ohz+yxaDCNA1eho68blAqudvE8sUd SjyfgW0sfeow7ExIM9xcCBW2hxYgwIUDWPF5b18dtcz5U4nnY3snvovgIV8FcSuE dkaNQDcC3wPZzmWfzMxXPQjjAtddYVj4uHHyzPdA1tLEUW/2C1vf8L2O8Rv8YREw 2okxTNbgvtY= =FNn/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
There might be at least one good reason for NOT going overseas on that first leg. The NSA's charter restricts it to international operations. By making that first leg a foreign one, you've made your transmission, the one with your address visible, fair game for them.
In theory, yes. But I've heard rumors from Canadian Bell people that their American counterparts routinely call them up to ask that they "throw switches" that they cannot legally throw themselves. That, plus well documented history, is enough for me to always assume that they *don't* follow the rules. Phil
There might be at least one good reason for NOT going overseas on that first leg. The NSA's charter restricts it to international operations. By making that first leg a foreign one, you've made your transmission, the one with your address visible, fair game for them.
In theory, yes. But I've heard rumors from Canadian Bell people that their American counterparts routinely call them up to ask that they "throw switches" that they cannot legally throw themselves.
That, plus well documented history, is enough for me to always assume that they *don't* follow the rules.
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored. And of course we've all read Bamford's account of the UK-USA Agreement, in which the UK spies on us and we spy on them, and all the legal niceties are thus met. Someday, when many people act as remailers, it won't matter as much. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored.
A small historical note. It was not until 1986 that most unauthorized interceptions of microwave radio common carrier transmissions such as AT&T Long Lines TD-2 and TH routes were definately and clearly made illegal (in the ECPA). Before that time such interception for other than foreign government espionage purposes was a gray area in the law, quite possibly there deliberately as was a curious similar absence of any prohibition at all against interception of any kind of digital data or record communications such as telegrams, twxs, faxes etc. transmitted over any media. It might be noted that microwave radio as a medium for transmitting long distance public telephone and data traffic was already undergoing a precipitous decline in 1986 as noisy analog microwave systems were rapidly being replaced with much cleaner digital fiber optic lines. At the present time very few (at least compared to the past) microwave long distance telephone links are still in use - but interestingly I am told that some out in the Indian reservation area of the west were still active as recently as a couple of years ago. [This in the face of successful federal prosecution of Indians for TV satellite piracy, ignoring any arguments that as a sovereign nation the Indian tribes were exempt from federal communications law]. Dave Emery
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored.
A small historical note. It was not until 1986 that most unauthorized interceptions of microwave radio common carrier transmissions such as AT&T Long Lines TD-2 and TH routes were definately and clearly made illegal (in the ECPA). Before that time such interception for other than foreign government espionage purposes was a gray area in the law, quite possibly there deliberately as was a curious similar absence of any prohibition at all against interception of any kind of digital data or record communications such as telegrams, twxs, faxes etc. transmitted over any media. It might be noted that microwave radio as a medium for transmitting long distance public telephone and data traffic was already undergoing a precipitous decline in 1986 as noisy analog microwave systems were rapidly being replaced with much cleaner digital fiber optic lines. At the present time very few (at least compared to the past) microwave long distance telephone links are still in use - but interestingly I am told that some out in the Indian reservation area of the west were still active as recently as a couple of years ago. [This in the face of successful federal prosecution of Indians for TV satellite piracy, ignoring any arguments that as a sovereign nation the Indian tribes were exempt from federal communications law]. Dave Emery
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored.
A small historical note. It was not until 1986 that most unauthorized interceptions of microwave radio common carrier transmissions such as AT&T Long Lines TD-2 and TH routes were definately and clearly made illegal (in the ECPA). Before that time such interception for other than foreign government espionage purposes was a gray area in the law, quite possibly there deliberately as was a curious similar absence of any prohibition at all against interception of any kind of digital data or record communications such as telegrams, twxs, faxes etc. transmitted over any media. It might be noted that microwave radio as a medium for transmitting long distance public telephone and data traffic was already undergoing a precipitous decline in 1986 as noisy analog microwave systems were rapidly being replaced with much cleaner digital fiber optic lines. At the present time very few (at least compared to the past) microwave long distance telephone links are still in use - but interestingly I am told that some out in the Indian reservation area of the west were still active as recently as a couple of years ago. [This in the face of successful federal prosecution of Indians for TV satellite piracy, ignoring any arguments that as a sovereign nation the Indian tribes were exempt from federal communications law]. Dave Emery
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored.
A small historical note. It was not until 1986 that most unauthorized interceptions of microwave radio common carrier transmissions such as AT&T Long Lines TD-2 and TH routes were definately and clearly made illegal (in the ECPA). Before that time such interception for other than foreign government espionage purposes was a gray area in the law, quite possibly there deliberately as was a curious similar absence of any prohibition at all against interception of any kind of digital data or record communications such as telegrams, twxs, faxes etc. transmitted over any media. It might be noted that microwave radio as a medium for transmitting long distance public telephone and data traffic was already undergoing a precipitous decline in 1986 as noisy analog microwave systems were rapidly being replaced with much cleaner digital fiber optic lines. At the present time very few (at least compared to the past) microwave long distance telephone links are still in use - but interestingly I am told that some out in the Indian reservation area of the west were still active as recently as a couple of years ago. [This in the face of successful federal prosecution of Indians for TV satellite piracy, ignoring any arguments that as a sovereign nation the Indian tribes were exempt from federal communications law]. Dave Emery
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored.
A small historical note. It was not until 1986 that most unauthorized interceptions of microwave radio common carrier transmissions such as AT&T Long Lines TD-2 and TH routes were definately and clearly made illegal (in the ECPA). Before that time such interception for other than foreign government espionage purposes was a gray area in the law, quite possibly there deliberately as was a curious similar absence of any prohibition at all against interception of any kind of digital data or record communications such as telegrams, twxs, faxes etc. transmitted over any media. It might be noted that microwave radio as a medium for transmitting long distance public telephone and data traffic was already undergoing a precipitous decline in 1986 as noisy analog microwave systems were rapidly being replaced with much cleaner digital fiber optic lines. At the present time very few (at least compared to the past) microwave long distance telephone links are still in use - but interestingly I am told that some out in the Indian reservation area of the west were still active as recently as a couple of years ago. [This in the face of successful federal prosecution of Indians for TV satellite piracy, ignoring any arguments that as a sovereign nation the Indian tribes were exempt from federal communications law]. Dave Emery
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored.
A small historical note. It was not until 1986 that most unauthorized interceptions of microwave radio common carrier transmissions such as AT&T Long Lines TD-2 and TH routes were definately and clearly made illegal (in the ECPA). Before that time such interception for other than foreign government espionage purposes was a gray area in the law, quite possibly there deliberately as was a curious similar absence of any prohibition at all against interception of any kind of digital data or record communications such as telegrams, twxs, faxes etc. transmitted over any media. It might be noted that microwave radio as a medium for transmitting long distance public telephone and data traffic was already undergoing a precipitous decline in 1986 as noisy analog microwave systems were rapidly being replaced with much cleaner digital fiber optic lines. At the present time very few (at least compared to the past) microwave long distance telephone links are still in use - but interestingly I am told that some out in the Indian reservation area of the west were still active as recently as a couple of years ago. [This in the face of successful federal prosecution of Indians for TV satellite piracy, ignoring any arguments that as a sovereign nation the Indian tribes were exempt from federal communications law]. Dave Emery
Yeah, and I got a recent report that "Long Lines" and other microwave tower lines were deliberately routed so as to cross over Indian Reservation lands in several places. Why? Allegedly because Indian lands are legally treated as "sovereign nations" and the (purported) rules against NSA listening could be ignored.
A small historical note. It was not until 1986 that most unauthorized interceptions of microwave radio common carrier transmissions such as AT&T Long Lines TD-2 and TH routes were definately and clearly made illegal (in the ECPA). Before that time such interception for other than foreign government espionage purposes was a gray area in the law, quite possibly there deliberately as was a curious similar absence of any prohibition at all against interception of any kind of digital data or record communications such as telegrams, twxs, faxes etc. transmitted over any media. It might be noted that microwave radio as a medium for transmitting long distance public telephone and data traffic was already undergoing a precipitous decline in 1986 as noisy analog microwave systems were rapidly being replaced with much cleaner digital fiber optic lines. At the present time very few (at least compared to the past) microwave long distance telephone links are still in use - but interestingly I am told that some out in the Indian reservation area of the west were still active as recently as a couple of years ago. [This in the face of successful federal prosecution of Indians for TV satellite piracy, ignoring any arguments that as a sovereign nation the Indian tribes were exempt from federal communications law]. Dave Emery
participants (4)
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nobody＠kaiwan.com -
None -
Phil Karn -
tcmay＠netcom.com