RE: Re: Shunning, lesbians and liberty
-- At 12:30 PM 9/28/2000 +0300, Sampo A Syreeni wrote:
Oh but it is quite possible to put people in similar trouble if we grant that the right to property is absolute - if somebody owns on a sufficiently wide scale the basic commodities one needs to survive in the modern world (like fresh water, farming land, employment opportunities), others are born right in the middle of the proverbial desert.
James A. Donald:
But in a free market this never happens. It only happens when the government intervenes. Thus, for example, we only see homelessness where there is rent control, we only see hunger where there is rationing and collectivized farming, and so on and so forth.
At 11:27 AM 9/29/2000 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote:
I assume (hope!) that you are merely being sarcastic.
I am simply reporting what any fool can see. Where do we see mass starvation? today we see it in North Korea, where the government has charge of food production and distribution, and a little earlier we saw it in Ethiopia where the same system applied. All the big famines were created by governments. Similarly, where do we see homelessness? Most of it is in San Francisco, half jokingly known as the people's republic as San Francisco, because of its drastic governmental management of housing. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG t5O4eL2x0M6k7ndK2ThplFXEUsakal5yFhuyqT6b 446e1qEYP/CB8TwFUBQP4NPbSlL+pdOJj4HbaMaPi
At 12:27 AM 10/1/00 -0700, James A.. Donald wrote:
Similarly, where do we see homelessness? Most of it is in San Francisco, half jokingly known as the people's republic as San Francisco, because of its drastic governmental management of housing.
There are a few causes, some the fault of government, some not. First of all, the weather here (and most of the California coast south of here) is much better than inland - it's hard to freeze to death. If you're going to be homeless, it's a lot better here than New York or Wisconsin. And the city's relatively tolerant of bums, in spite of occasional mayoral progams to make them go away. Another is the government's policy on mental health funding - some years ago, they started dumping previously-government-funded mental patients on the streets, even if they were somewhat crazy. Then there's the price of black-market heroin - some of the homeless I know are drunks; others are junkies when they can afford junk. San Francisco housing is expensive enough even if you're not spending your welfare check on the black market. Then of course there's the problem that San Franciscans don't like new buildings in their back yards, whether they're businesses or houses, especially yuppie houses or apartments for poor people. And they don't like landlords, so it's seldom worthwhile to go through the hassle and expense of getting permits to build apartments that'll get rent-controlled. So the price of existing housing goes through the roof, and anybody in a rent-controlled place can't afford to move to a non-rent-controlled place. And business rents go way up, so warehouses and other marginal buildings get replaced with condos, and live-work spaces get used for offices instead of residences. Meanwhile, of course, San Franciscans are Liberals who don't want anybody living in substandard housing, so non-city-funded flophouses tend to get closed down or remodeled into yuppie housing, and small cheap crowded tenement housing isn't legal either. It wasn't very good, but it was better than being on the streets. Of course, some of the fires in local flophouses really _have_ been caused by smoking in bed, as opposed to creative avoidance of laws against tearing down buildings to build better ones. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, James A.. Donald wrote:
Similarly, where do we see homelessness? Most of it is in San Francisco, half jokingly known as the people's republic as San Francisco, because of its drastic governmental management of housing.
That is an entirely too simple-minded explanation of homelessness. To buy into this spin doctor bullshit line. ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (3)
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Bill Stewart
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James A.. Donald
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Jim Choate