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On Monday, November 12, 2001, at 03:27 PM, Faustine wrote:
> If questioning your commitment is all it 
> takes to push your buttons, I'd say that's less than optimal.

>>You, thank Baal, have no knowledge of what "pushes my buttons." 

True, but even the most casual perusal of the archive suggests you've got
plenty of them.

I bet a person could really learn a lot by spending some quality time
with Google, taking careful notes on the differences between posts you ignore,
ones you're content to dismiss with frosty condescension, what really seems to
bother the hell out of you, ones that should bother the hell out of you but you
choose to  ignore, etc. etc. It's a wonder someone hasn't pulled a number on
you already. Sometimes I wonder about "Agent Farr" though.

 
>You also have almost no list experience here (though this has never stopped
>you from lecturing us on things you've read about in books).

OR: "damn whippersnapper!"


>I write about what I desire to write about.

Of course.  As long as you aren't getting jerked around, more power to you. 


>Now that the training camp is over, there is no threat to the security
>of the operation. They lack time machines.

Why talk about it though? The sheer satisfaction of imagining feds and sheeple
crapping their pants in fearful anticipation? Even if nothing happened at all,
you have to realize unsympathetic people who aren't in on your peculiar brand
of humor are going to take things like this at face value and hold it against 
you. You risk getting slapped around with the anti-paramilitary training 
statutes whether you're kidding or not. Odds are you don't care one way or the
other, but it seemed unnecessarily reckless, that's all. For your own sake.


> I'm sure anyone who bears ill-will to the group is finding this whole 
> thread quite instructive--undoubtedly the point of the original post in the 
> first place. Good show. How sickening to think that now you have to worry
> about getting anti-paramilitary training statutes dumped on you (on top 
> of anything else) just because a few people couldn't resist showing up a 
> stupid troll.

>>And which "anti-paramilitary traning statutes" would these be?

(gratuitous ad hominem snipped)

- From the "Allegiance to the US" section of the handbook on reasons for denying
clearance:

http://www.dss.mil/training/adr/alleg/allegF.htm

Laws Regarding Private Militias

Federal law prohibits paramilitary training and the manufacture or transport of
weapons with the knowledge or intent that they will be used to create a civil 
disturbance. (Ref 10) Federal law differs from most state laws prohibiting
paramilitary training in that it applies only to the trainers, not the
trainees. Under most state laws governing paramilitary training, participation 
as a trainee is also illegal.

Laws are on the books in 41 states to ban either the militias themselves or
paramilitary training or both. (Ref 11)

The two types of laws operate differently. Anti-paramilitary training laws ban
groups whose members know or intend that a civil disorder will result from 
their activities. Anti-militia laws ban all unauthorized militias, regardless 
of whether the participants have any specific criminal intent or knowledge. 
Anti-militia laws generally require evidence that a group of people are
associated together in a formal military-type organization. Anti-paramilitary
training statutes, by contrast, can be used against groups as small as two or
three people. Both types of laws generally exempt organizations like hunting
clubs.

These laws are seldom enforced, but they are relevant to an adjudicative
determination that an individual is engaging in either lawful or unlawful 
militia activities.

The state laws and the legal citations for them are as follows:

Alabama. Anti-militia. Ala. Code ' 31-2-125
Arizona. Anti-militia. Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. ' 26-123.
Arkansas. Anti-paramilitary training. Ark. Code ' 5-71-301 to -303.
California. Anti-paramilitary training. Cal. Penal Code ' 11460.
Colorado. Anti-paramilitary training. Colo. Rev. Stat. ' 18-9-120.
Connecticut. Anti-paramilitary training. Conn. Gen. Stat. ' 53-206b.
Florida. Anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training. Fla. Stat. Ann. ch. 870.06, 790.29.
Georgia. Anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training. Ga. Code Ann. '' 38-2-277, 16-11-150 to -152.
Idaho. Anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training. Idaho Code '' 46-802, 18-8101 to -8105.
Iowa. Anti-militia. Iowa Code ' 29A.31
Illinois. Anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training. Ill. Rev. Stat. ch. 1805, para 94-95.
Kansas. Anti-militia. Kan. Stat. Ann. ' 48-203.
Kentucky. Anti-militia. Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. ' 38.440.
Louisiana. Anti-paramilitary training. La. Rev. Stat. Ann. ' 117.1.
Maine. Anti-militia. Me. Rev. Stat. Ann. tit. 37-B, ' 342.2.
Maryland. Anti-militia. Md. Code Ann. art. 65, ' 35.
Massachusetts. Anti-militia. Mass. Gen. L. ch. 33 ' 129-132.
Michigan. Anti-paramilitary training. Mich. Comp. Laws ' 750.528a.
Minnesota. Anti-militia. Minn. Stat. ' 624.61.
Mississippi. Anti-militia. Miss. Code Ann. ' 33-1-31.
Missouri. Anti-paramilitary training. Mo. Rev. Stat. ' 574.070.
Nebraska. Anti-paramilitary training. Neb. Rev. Stat. ' 28-1480 to -1482.
Nevada. Anti-militia. Nev. Rev. Stat. ' 203.080.
New Hampshire. Anti-militia. N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. ' 111:15.
New Jersey. Anti-paramilitary training. N.J. Rev. Stat. ' 2C:39-14.
New Mexico. Anti-paramilitary training. N.M. Stat. Ann. ' 30-20A-1 to -4.
New York. Anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training. N.Y. Mil. Law ' 240.
North Carolina. Anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training. N.C. Gen. Stat. '' 127A-151, 14-288.20.
North Dakota. Anti-militia. N.D. Cent. Code ' 37-01-21.
Oklahoma. Anti-paramilitary training. Okla. Stat. Ann. tit. 21, ' 1321.10.
Oregon. Anti-paramilitary training. Or. Rev. Stat. ' 166.660.
Pennsylvania. Anti-paramilitary training. 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. ' 5515.
Rhode Island. anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training. R.I. Gen. Laws '' 30-12-7, 11-55-1 to -3.
South Carolina. Anti-paramilitary training. S.C. Code Ann. ' 16-8-10 to -30.
Tennessee. Anti-paramilitary training. Tenn. Code Ann. ' 39-17-314.
Texas. Anti-militia. Tex. Govt. Code; Ann. ' 431.010.
Virginia. Anti-paramilitary training. Va. Code Ann. '' 18.2-433.1 to -433.3.
Washington. Anti-militia. Wash. Rev. Code ' 38.40.120.
West Virginia. Anti-militia. W.Va. Code ' 15-1F-7.
Wyoming. Anti-militia. Wyo. Stat. ' 19-1-106.


>And what is done by other memmbers of a list does not establish guilt by
>association, except in your fevered mind.

Oh, but it's not just my fevered mind in particular. See "Association With
Certain Extremist Organizations or Groups" as a reason to deny security
clearance in the above handbook. The list might not be a group now, but once
you get branded as having conducted illegal paramilitary training for whatever
reason--joke or not--the sad fact is you certainly will be.


>For example, the discussion I contributed to on hacking the air traffic 
>control system for political purposes makes you guilty of which crime 
>and in which way?

Guilt by association with a thoughtcrime, of course.


> Here's hoping your temper doesn't get the better of you.
>>You are ignorant of my mental state of mind. Twit.
- --Tim May

Nevertheless, it's endlessly fascinating, isn't it, grumpy.


~Faustine.



***

The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms.
- --William O. Douglas, Associate Justice, US Supreme Court

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