CDR: Fwd: Re: anarchism = socialism
At 12:30 AM 10/5/2000, Tim May wrote:
That you would say "beautiful sentiment" to the overall article you quoted is...scary.
Perhaps I misspoke. What I meant to get across was that the article was compelling, but I didn't believe it was practicle. 26 megabytes is a bit much, I should have pared the original down to the parts I was actually attacking. Anyway, this was one of those yes, but... responses.
At 11:57 AM -0500 10/5/00, Sean Roach wrote:
At 12:30 AM 10/5/2000, Tim May wrote:
That you would say "beautiful sentiment" to the overall article you quoted is...scary.
Perhaps I misspoke. What I meant to get across was that the article was compelling, but I didn't believe it was practicle. 26 megabytes is a bit much, I should have pared the original down to the parts I was actually attacking. Anyway, this was one of those yes, but... responses.
Still scary. Like saying "Socialism is a beautiful idea, but it won't work." Or, "We should sacrifice ourselves for the herd, but we're not moral enough to do the right thing." These sentiments are perniciously evil. (I won't launch into a rant on this. Others have said it better over the decades and centuries.) You need to think very carefully about why it is you think that the socialist sentiments, and the blather about profits belonging to the laborers, are "beautiful" or "compelling." They are not. They are flawed for many reasons, and not at all 'beautiful." --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
At 12:36 PM 10/5/2000, Tim May wrote:
You need to think very carefully about why it is you think that the socialist sentiments, and the blather about profits belonging to the laborers, are "beautiful" or "compelling." They are not. They are flawed for many reasons, and not at all 'beautiful."
Actually, I'm still smarting over the twin facts that the Oklahoma highway department, for the greater good, leveled two gas stations, one I considered a landmark, to widen a highway turn. That Altus, the county seat here, "annexed" the surrounding area, and declared that only so many houses could be built per acre to appease the airbase, and regulate businesses outside thier borders by requiring a certain amount of the front of the buildings being bricked, without extending fire and police services to those controlled in either case. I think the labor of a person is his own to use or sell as he sees fit. If I agree to turn out wooden pencils for 6 dollars an hour, I have no arguement for demanding more if those pencils later sell for 10 bucks apiece. Besides, my comments in that still quoted post, were based on how socialism was at least, if not more, abusable than what we have now. I think you mis-read me. That second quote about sacrificing for the herd was closer to the mark. Substitute "could" for "should", "stupid" for "moral", and "popular" for "right". And you have to admit, if tomorrow I gave all my worldly goods to the community at large, they would hail me a "good man" for at least the evening...while they snickered behind my back. Good luck, Sean
At 1:27 PM -0500 10/5/00, Sean Roach wrote:
That second quote about sacrificing for the herd was closer to the mark. Substitute "could" for "should", "stupid" for "moral", and "popular" for "right".
And you have to admit, if tomorrow I gave all my worldly goods to the community at large, they would hail me a "good man" for at least the evening...while they snickered behind my back.
The issue is not what others claim is moral, the issue is that some (you, in my view, based on your 'beautiful sentiment" comment) think it _is_ moral. My point was to disabuse you of the notion that socialism is somehow "beautiful, but impractical." There are many reasons--economic, psychological, cultural--why socialism is deeply flawed and not at all "beautiful." Look, we've discussed this many times over the years with people who show up here and repeat the blither about how socialism is a wonderful idea if only it can be made to work. It just ain't so. Read the archives for past arguments. Review the early history of the Jamestown Colony and what "to each according to his needs" did to them, practically and psychologically. Think deeply about the game-theoretic implications of having socialized reward systems. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
participants (2)
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Sean Roach -
Tim May