Bill Frantz wrote... "Except for the fact that one should not trust pledges that are made under coercion, I am reasonably comfortable with this edited version. It expresses the ideal nation that I wish the United States would become." Well, this is probably a lot better than nothing, particularly for a young person. But for someone older I would suggest that this is, to some extent, a dodge. Why? Because who is it you are pledging TO? The notion of the Pledge of Alleigiance as we know it is a public proclamation of one's affinities. And in this case, if no one in authority can make out that certain portions of the Pledge are not being stated, then I would argue that not stating them is almost as good as useless. It's kind of like a kid crossing his fingers behind his back while telling a promise, to negate the "lie" of the promise. -TD

From: Bill Frantz <frantz@pwpconsult.com> To: cypherpunks@lne.com Subject: Re: Forced Oaths to Pieces of Cloth Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:57:14 -0800

At 6:55 AM -0800 2/9/03, Sunder wrote:

...

And also freedom of religion. Forcing someone to say "Under God" for example.

Back in the dark ages (the 1950s, and don't anyone get nostalgic for them), when the phrase "under god" was added to the pledge, I was a student in school. From what they had taught me, I knew then that this addition violated the establishment of religion clause. The solution I devised was to simply remain silent when this phrase was said.

Unfortunately having started to question the relation between the pledge and the ideals of the country, I started to wonder why I was pledging to the flag, instead of the country. So over the years, I have a somewhat edited version (removed parts in brackets):

I pledge allegiance to [the flag of] the United States of America [and to the republic for which it stands], one nation [under god], indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Except for the fact that one should not trust pledges that are made under coercion, I am reasonably comfortable with this edited version. It expresses the ideal nation that I wish the United States would become.

Cheers - Bill

------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the Ameican | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@pwpconsult.com | way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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