Re: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Well, perhaps your comment was made entirely toungue-in-cheek, but I still think you're missing the point. The point is this: Almost and "side" in this world that has committed or commits atrocities can find a true-believing apolegist. And in most cases the best of these can concoct an answer to anything you throw at him. As far as I'm concerned, that's the whole point of going through this excersize (ie, of finding a way to rationalize pretty much ANY form of violence/terrorism.) The danger comes when a nation (ie, the guys who control the guns) is run by the apolegists, or people who hold similar viewpoints. Put in another way, just because you really really REALLY believe you are right doesn't give anyone the right to create huge amounts of turmoil and death in someone else's country. -TD
From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com> To: "cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net> Subject: Re: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:59:56 -0700
-- J.A. Terranson:
So if I was to go out tomorrow and spread 2000 curies of Ci into the local subway system "As payback for Ruby Ridge", this would not be an act of terrorism?
James A. Donald:
That would be terrorism, because regardless of what you *said* your intent was, you would not be targeting those responsible for Ruby Ridge.
J.A. Terranson:
And if the station I chose just happened to be the one servicing ATF?
If your intent was to nail passing BATF employees, surely hitting closer to their office would be more effectual. Spray some radioactives in the entrance lobby.
--digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG KWVunJBmZ52AZSOdaQb2Q5Zoz2Crn5g0U31NRSlo 4iLTYoVpo0AgmiEow46ObxjN4dPkqPP6I0kKDTG+9
_________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
-- On 25 Oct 2004 at 21:03, Tyler Durden wrote:
The point is this: Almost and "side" in this world that has committed or commits atrocities can find a true-believing apolegist.
Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny and slavery. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 9UPtpcIvFgtu2JFnBNLIA/QPpXk7MkK68mtvmQya 45I4CX0wox3d7YrExie7R1Q+2YFGk2ao4amh5DlM6
On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:19 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny and slavery.
Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent conflict. The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the correctness of their interpretation. When the conflict is of a historic scale, the loser is often too dead to object. -- Roy M. Silvernail is roy@rant-central.com, and you're not "It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss http://www.rant-central.com
At 6:23 PM -0400 10/26/04, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent conflict. The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the correctness of their interpretation. When the conflict is of a historic scale, the loser is often too dead to object.
...and your point is? :-). Same as it ever was, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 18:38 -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
At 6:23 PM -0400 10/26/04, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent conflict. The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the correctness of their interpretation. When the conflict is of a historic scale, the loser is often too dead to object.
...and your point is?
Oh, sorry... I thought we were stating and restating the very obvious.
Same as it ever was,
Indeed. -- Roy M. Silvernail is roy@rant-central.com, and you're not "It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss http://www.rant-central.com
-- James A. Donald:
Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny and slavery.
Roy M. Silvernail
Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent conflict. The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the correctness of their interpretation.
A claim that presupposes that the west is just as totalitarian as its enemies, that well known reality is not to be trusted, that newsmen and historians are servants of the vast capitalist conspiracy, so in place of obvious truths, we can substitute any ridiculous fantasy that we find politically conforting, for example Tyler Durden's fantasy that the US attacked Korea, and attacked to impose poverty on Koreans so that the US can be rich, or the widely popular fantasy that the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden. Seeing as Bin Laden's contribution to the revolutionary war against the Soviets was merely roadbuilding, did they train him in roadbuilding? --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG AErjoTRu9URKg4L+F5xjlOq35GQBD2reuyMhDJ5b 46ur5/+9ZCqnZu8EDgtmmeUH93ImKPyfT6+Pj/QUE
On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 21:10 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
-- James A. Donald:
Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny and slavery.
Roy M. Silvernail
Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent conflict. The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the correctness of their interpretation.
A claim that presupposes that the west is just as totalitarian as its enemies, that well known reality is not to be trusted, that newsmen and historians are servants of the vast capitalist conspiracy,
No claim in evidence. Just the observation that any justificaton for a violent conflict is necessarily subjective. -- Roy M. Silvernail is roy@rant-central.com, and you're not "It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss http://www.rant-central.com
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 21:10 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
-- James A. Donald:
Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny and slavery.
Roy M. Silvernail
Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent conflict. The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the correctness of their interpretation.
A claim that presupposes that the west is just as totalitarian as its enemies, that well known reality is not to be trusted, that newsmen and historians are servants of the vast capitalist conspiracy,
No claim in evidence. Just the observation that any justificaton for a violent conflict is necessarily subjective.
It does not have to be *true*, you just have to get others to believe it. Of course, the current administration has been handing them example after example to point to to make the point... -- chown -R us ./base
At 9:10 PM -0700 10/26/04, James A. Donald wrote:
fantasy that the US attacked Korea, and attacked to impose poverty on Koreans so that the US can be rich,
This is actually the running fantasy in Marxism since the 1950's, when it turned out that that, instead of the "workers" eating the "bourgeoisie" by the firelight or some Glorious Revolution or another, would instead be come "bourgeoisie" themselves. So, seeing their utter failure to create "workers" paradise in the industrial West, they decided to change their unit of "analysis" from people to nation-states. Of course, India, various parts of broken up legislated or forcibly-conquered pseudostates, like Slovenia, the Baltics, even Mongolia and China itself, have shown that "capitalism" -- Marx's word for "economics", or "markets", or "individual freedom" depending on your scale of "analysis" -- has the same effect there that it did in the US and Europe in the 1950's. Or the 1850's, for that matter. Marxists, and their fellow-travellers of all dilutions, from actual card-carriers to "liberals" in the US are such worthess assholes, and such "state-is-a-person" "analyses" are so much projectile excrement from same. Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
participants (5)
-
alan -
James A. Donald -
R.A. Hettinga -
Roy M. Silvernail -
Tyler Durden