CDR: Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!
Spooky Cypherpunk Niggar Tim May Moroned: # When I hear Jesse Jackson saying that unless the Palm Beach voters # are given the chance to have a new vote there will be a race war, I # rejoice. # # I was just reading in misc.survivalism that some folks in Florida are # saying that if Al Gore and his Voters of Color succeed in twisting # the courts into stealing the election, that white folks will start # killing. # # Music to my ears. The fuse is burning on the powder keg. Holy shit! I vote you are hereby ex-communicated from the Cypherpunks club, joining Dimitry Vulis.
On Thu, 09 Nov 2000, George@Orwellian.Org wrote:
Spooky Cypherpunk Niggar Tim May Moroned: # When I hear Jesse Jackson saying that unless the Palm Beach voters # are given the chance to have a new vote there will be a race war, I # rejoice. # # I was just reading in misc.survivalism that some folks in Florida are # saying that if Al Gore and his Voters of Color succeed in twisting # the courts into stealing the election, that white folks will start # killing. # # Music to my ears. The fuse is burning on the powder keg.
Holy shit!
I vote you are hereby ex-communicated from the Cypherpunks club, joining Dimitry Vulis.
Bwahahahahahahahaha! jim -- Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural
This following a near impeachment. What happens if by the day the new president is to take his oath there is still no clear winner? Even if the candidates get together and one is a gracious loser, the trauma won't be lessened. There will be literaly no faith in the president. What would Congress need to do in order to pass an emergency resolution that would allow the current president to stay in office until the issue is resolved. Could this be a new way to get a third term? Would the vice-president (who serves when the president can't) then be the next in line (assume the speaker of the house would be next if memory serves)? Any civil liberties group worth the name better get ready to go into high gear. Voters and juries are going to be extremely critical of government activity. Expect to see a drop in law and government related employment below it's current nadir. This will probably distract the military from as many foreign involvements as well. There will be no clear foreign policy. This could have devastating effects for many of the high tension areas (e.g. China - Taiwan). It will probably effect global terrorism as well. We'll also see an increase in espionage as well. This could effect future crypto regs in a negative way as well. Cyphers and paranoid politicians. ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim clearly needs some remedial education in the U.S. Constitution, particularly the 12th Amendment. -Declan On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 06:19:38PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
This following a near impeachment.
What happens if by the day the new president is to take his oath there is still no clear winner? Even if the candidates get together and one is a gracious loser, the trauma won't be lessened. There will be literaly no faith in the president. What would Congress need to do in order to pass an emergency resolution that would allow the current president to stay in office until the issue is resolved. Could this be a new way to get a third term? Would the vice-president (who serves when the president can't) then be the next in line (assume the speaker of the house would be next if memory serves)?
Any civil liberties group worth the name better get ready to go into high gear. Voters and juries are going to be extremely critical of government activity.
Expect to see a drop in law and government related employment below it's current nadir.
This will probably distract the military from as many foreign involvements as well. There will be no clear foreign policy. This could have devastating effects for many of the high tension areas (e.g. China - Taiwan). It will probably effect global terrorism as well. We'll also see an increase in espionage as well. This could effect future crypto regs in a negative way as well. Cyphers and paranoid politicians.
____________________________________________________________________
He is able who thinks he is able.
Buddha
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
At 18:19 -0600 11/9/00, Jim Choate wrote:
This following a near impeachment.
What happens if by the day the new president is to take his oath there is still no clear winner? Even if the candidates get together and one is a gracious loser, the trauma won't be lessened. There will be literaly no faith in the president. What would Congress need to do in order to pass an emergency resolution that would allow the current president to stay in office until the issue is resolved. Could this be a new way to get a third term? Would the vice-president (who serves when the president can't) then be the next in line (assume the speaker of the house would be next if memory serves)?
Constitutionally, I don't think congress can do anything about it- they MAY pick the day he takes office (I don't recall if that date is in the constitution or is statutory). If they get to pick the day, they might be able to get away with pushing it back for awhile, but even then the constition say, president shall serve 4 year term so it can be argued that 1 day longer than that and he's not president. -- "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air--however slight--lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- Justice William O. Douglas ____________________________________________________________________ Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott <mailto:kelliott@mac.com> ICQ#23758827
At 18:19 -0600 11/9/00, Jim Choate wrote:
This following a near impeachment.
What happens if by the day the new president is to take his oath there is still no clear winner? Even if the candidates get together and one is a gracious loser, the trauma won't be lessened. There will be literaly no faith in the president. What would Congress need to do in order to pass an emergency resolution that would allow the current president to stay in office until the issue is resolved. Could this be a new way to get a
Was the Florida Ballot possibly confusing ? Yes! Should it be redesigned for the next election? Yes! Does it mean those people should get to re-vote ? No! Life is unfair (a.k.a. Shit Happens). Accept the consequences. Learn from your mistakes. Get on with your Life. There are a lot of things in my life I'd like to do over because of mistakes, circumstances, etc. Do I get a chance to do them over ? Nope. Unless they can demonstrate real fraud or negligence on the part of election officials (refusing to give voters replacement ballots if they screw up in the booth), the results of the recount should stand. Otherwise we will be opening a giant can of worms. As for Gore having more actual votes than Bush, it doesn't matter. If you're not happy about that, push to have the Constitution amended (Good Luck!). Neil M. Johnson njohnson@interl.net http://www.interl.net/~njohnson PGP Key Finger Print: 93C0 793F B66E A0C7 CEEA 3E92 6B99 2DCC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Elliott" <k-elliott@wiu.edu> To: "Jim Choate" <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>; <cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com> Cc: "The Club Inferno" <hell@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>; <cliology@EINSTEIN.ssz.com> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 10:34 PM Subject: Re: CDR: Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins! third
term? Would the vice-president (who serves when the president can't) then be the next in line (assume the speaker of the house would be next if memory serves)?
Constitutionally, I don't think congress can do anything about it- they MAY pick the day he takes office (I don't recall if that date is in the constitution or is statutory). If they get to pick the day, they might be able to get away with pushing it back for awhile, but even then the constition say, president shall serve 4 year term so it can be argued that 1 day longer than that and he's not president. --
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air--however slight--lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- Justice William O. Douglas ____________________________________________________________________ Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott <mailto:kelliott@mac.com> ICQ#23758827
On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Neil Johnson wrote:
Was the Florida Ballot possibly confusing ? Yes!
Thats arguable, Ive seen tests in schools like that before, besides they've used that format before! three times I do believe, just bitching THIS TIME
Should it be redesigned for the next election? Yes!
I can buy that
Does it mean those people should get to re-vote ? No!
Exactly! They know they control the outcome, it would then become the vote of 19000 people to decide the election. Sorry, election day was November the 7th.
Do I get a chance to do them over ? Nope.
Unless they can demonstrate real fraud or negligence on the part of election officials (refusing to give voters replacement ballots if they screw up in the booth), the results of the recount should stand. Otherwise we will be opening a giant can of worms.
Even if there was that sort of negligence (no new ballots) as long as that was equal to everyone there, not just to any one 'type' of person, who cares. No matter what, a revote is impossible.
As for Gore having more actual votes than Bush, it doesn't matter. If you're not happy about that, push to have the Constitution amended (Good Luck!).
I could see that being a possibility Max Inux <maxinux@openpgp.net> HTTP://www.OpenPGP.Net
Jim Choate wrote:
What happens if by the day the new president is to take his oath there is still no clear winner?
IANAL nor even a USAn but I think your constitution says that the President is chosen by the electoral college. They can - and I assume will - choose a President with or without the representatives of Florida. The legal issue is between the people of Florida (some of who claim to have been disenfranchised) and their state government. If it isn't settled, the rest of the USA will choose the President & some Floridans will get very cross. You can find copies of your country's constitution online, if you aren't near a library.
Even if the candidates get together and one is a gracious loser, the trauma won't be lessened.
I'm sure it would, but it is hard to imagine them doing it.
There will be literaly no faith in the president. What would Congress need to do in order to pass an emergency resolution that would allow the current president to stay in office until the issue is resolved.
The issue is resolved when the EC choose the new President. [...snip...]
This will probably distract the military from as many foreign involvements as well. There will be no clear foreign policy. This could have devastating effects for many of the high tension areas (e.g. China - Taiwan). It will probably effect global terrorism as well. We'll also see an increase in espionage as well. This could effect future crypto regs in a negative way as well. Cyphers and paranoid politicians.
Eh? Was this pasted in from another topic? How does this "distract the military"? If they are like any other countries military they will be quite happy to get on with their own agenda. Do you think that the government of China really cares a dam who you elect as President? Or that "global terrorism" will increase because policy-making in Washington is slowed down? Or even that policy-making in Washington will be slowed down. You have lots and lots of civil servants over there who will carry on in their jobs with or without t And when was the last time there was a "clear foreign policy" anyway? Ken, confused.
On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Ken Brown wrote:
IANAL nor even a USAn but I think your constitution says that the President is chosen by the electoral college. They can - and I assume will - choose a President with or without the representatives of Florida.
Go read the 12th. It all assumes the basic vote is valid. This is the same mistake Declan made in his (typically) self-inflating way. And then ask yourself, ok. Let's assume that the vote does go to the EC as it stands. The people in general won't have any faith in the results. Now Congress recognizes this and decides to step in per the 12th. Will this resolve the issue? No. Most people are still going to see a bad election followed by the people who managed the bad election (in principle if not practice) making the choice. Another indication of 'vote value' or lack of it. However it goes, this one is going to wake some folks up.
Floridans will get very cross. You can find copies of your country's constitution online, if you aren't near a library.
It will be more than Floridians.
Even if the candidates get together and one is a gracious loser, the trauma won't be lessened.
I'm sure it would, but it is hard to imagine them doing it.
See Kennedy/Nixon. I agree with your last statement, you are confused. ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Huh? Tim has been posting such articles for years. You weren't around for the Y2K discussions. -Declan On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 05:58:11PM -0500, George@orwellian.org wrote:
Spooky Cypherpunk Niggar Tim May Moroned: # When I hear Jesse Jackson saying that unless the Palm Beach voters # are given the chance to have a new vote there will be a race war, I # rejoice. # # I was just reading in misc.survivalism that some folks in Florida are # saying that if Al Gore and his Voters of Color succeed in twisting # the courts into stealing the election, that white folks will start # killing. # # Music to my ears. The fuse is burning on the powder keg.
Holy shit!
I vote you are hereby ex-communicated from the Cypherpunks club, joining Dimitry Vulis.
On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 05:58:11PM -0500, George@orwellian.org wrote:
I vote you are hereby ex-communicated from the Cypherpunks club, joining Dimitry Vulis.
At 07:05 PM 11/9/00 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Huh? Tim has been posting such articles for years. You weren't around for the Y2K discussions.
George, you've got to remember not to mess with Winston Smith. Unlike some people who need killing, yer just gonna get unpersoned.... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 10:39:31PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 05:58:11PM -0500, George@orwellian.org wrote:
I vote you are hereby ex-communicated from the Cypherpunks club, joining Dimitry Vulis.
At 07:05 PM 11/9/00 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Huh? Tim has been posting such articles for years. You weren't around for the Y2K discussions.
George, you've got to remember not to mess with Winston Smith. Unlike some people who need killing, yer just gonna get unpersoned....
Besides, George seems to have an unusual fixation on Vulis... -Declan
participants (9)
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Bill Stewart -
Declan McCullagh -
Georgeï¼ Orwellian.Org -
Jim Burnes -
Jim Choate -
Ken Brown -
Kevin Elliott -
Max Inux -
Neil Johnson