Re: Code name "Killer Rabbit": New Sub Can Tap Undersea Cables
No! Undersea? Do you take a copy of EVERYTHING and send it back? That might have been more feasible in the old days, but when a single fiber can run 64 wavelength optically amplified 10 Gig traffic, I really really doubt it. Or at least, this would require an undertaking large enough that I doubt they could hide it. If they select some traffic then we have to ask, how do they select the traffic? Even there the mind boggles thinking about the kinds of gear necessary. I suspect it's a combination of all sorts of stuff...remember too that all that traffic has to land somewhere, so theoretically they can access a good deal of it terrestrially. What you might see, therefore, is a sheath coming out of, say Iran, is tapped for fibers that proceed on to other unfriendly nations, and a copy of the traffic pulled back to some nearby land-based station in a friendly country (so that lots of amplifiers aren't needed). I'd bet you do see the occasional Variola suitcase, though, requiring a sub visit once in a while. But I bet they avoid this kind of thing as much as possible, given the traffic volumes. -TD
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov> To: crypto <cryptography@metzdowd.com> CC: osint@yahoogroups.com, cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: Code name "Killer Rabbit": New Sub Can Tap Undersea Cables Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:33:56 -0600
On Feb 18, 2005, at 19:47, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
"It does continue to be something of a puzzle as to how they get this stuff back to home base," said John Pike, a military expert at GlobalSecurity.org.
I should think that in many cases, they can simply lease a fiber in the same cable. What could be simpler?
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:01:05 -0500, Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com> wrote:
... Do you take a copy of EVERYTHING and send it back? That might have been more feasible in the old days, but when a single fiber can run 64 wavelength optically amplified 10 Gig traffic, I really really doubt it. Or at least, this would require an undertaking large enough that I doubt they could hide it.
DWDM certainly makes it more complicated. Of course, that same technology allows them to send much more back. (Regarding the single OC-3 mentioned previously.) How they process and return the information is indeed the BIG SECRET. The old USSR taps used pods attached to the cables for recording and were serviced periodically to pick up the collected data. See also: http://cryptome.org/nsa-fibertap.htm
... I suspect it's a combination of all sorts of stuff...remember too that all that traffic has to land somewhere, so theoretically they can access a good deal of it terrestrially.
If you look at the landing sites for various oceanic fiber cables you will see that a great many of them are on "friendly" territory. You can be sure that these lines are tapped. (Which brings up the issue someone else mentioned a while ago. We make a big deal about ECHELON monitoring satellites, yet no one really cares about the tapping of landing sites that carry many times more information? Silly humans) I presume the fiber tapping submarine is interested mainly in those cables which don't land on friendly territory or the sections landed between unfriendly sites. (E.g. not all data goes through all sites)
What you might see, therefore, is a sheath coming out of, say Iran, is tapped for fibers that proceed on to other unfriendly nations, and a copy of the traffic pulled back to some nearby land-based station in a friendly country (so that lots of amplifiers aren't needed).
This would be a reasonable assumption. But so would a number of other possible techniques. The great mystery continues... Best regards,
DWDM certainly makes it more complicated. Of course, that same technology allows them to send much more back. (Regarding the single OC-3 mentioned previously.)
Well, DISTANCE makes it more complicated first of all. You need undersea repeaters and/or OFAs in order to get traffic from most parts of the ocean back to land, and the NSA will in many cases not want nor be able to use the "host" service providers' OFAs. This would mean they'd have to install their own, and I doubt they're going to just plop on their own regeneration site on the outside of a civilian cable. Hum. In some parts of the ocean they must almost certainly have their own cable and then couple stolen traffic into it. I'd bet there also must exist some mini-Echelons on some Islands somewhere (like Majorca or the Azores) where they do some grooming and listening. -TD
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