Someone should have commented here, so I will, that some judges (earning hanging) basically said that anonymity is not a right. This in the context of mask-wearing in public. If the Klan doesn't have a right to wear pillowcases what makes you think mixmaster will survive?
At 6:33 PM -0800 12/9/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
If the Klan doesn't have a right to wear pillowcases what makes you think mixmaster will survive?
"Which was me point", mutters Killick, under his breath... Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Someone should have commented here, so I will, that some judges (earning
hanging) basically said that anonymity is not a right. This in the context of mask-wearing in public. If the Klan doesn't have a right to wear pillowcases what makes you think mixmaster will survive?
Mixmaster's death is in fact coming - you can bank on it. Every fed I know is violently aware of every operating remailer. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
----- Original Message ----- From: "Major Variola (ret)" <mv@cdc.gov> Subject: punkly current events
If the Klan doesn't have a right to wear pillowcases what makes you think mixmaster will survive?
Well besides the misinterprettaion of the ruling, which I will ignore, what makes you think MixMaster isn't already dead? MixMaster is only being used by a small percentage of individuals. Those individuals like to claim that everyone should send everything anonymously, when in truth communication cannot happen with anonymity, and trust cannot be built anonymously. This leaves MixMaster as only being useful for a small percentage of normal people, and those using it to prevent being identified as they communicate with other known individuals. The result of this is rather the opposite of what MixMaster is supposed to create. A small group to investigate for any actions which are illegal, or deemed worth investigating. In fact it is arguable that for a new face in action it is probably easier to get away with the actions in question to send the information in the clear to their compatriots than it is to use MixMaster, simply because being a part of the group using MixMaster immediately flags them, as potential problems. In short, except for those few people who have some use for MixMaster, MixMaster was stillborn. I'm not arguing whether such a situation should be the correct way things happened, but that is the way things happened. Joe
On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 06:33:09PM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Someone should have commented here, so I will, that some judges (earning hanging) basically said that anonymity is not a right. This in the context of mask-wearing in public. If the Klan doesn't have a right to wear pillowcases what makes you think mixmaster will survive?
Because nodes are not geographically constrained to US jurisdiction? If mixter won't survive, it's due to spammers, and malware spreaders. -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
On Dec 10 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote: | | Because nodes are not geographically constrained to US jurisdiction? | | If mixter won't survive, it's due to spammers, and malware spreaders. The latter statement my well be true, I don't use the network, nor know the ratios of good/bad traffic. But I am very curious to find out what would be considered geographically "safe" jurisdictions in this sense. Not just today, but given the general trend, where would you see such a jurisdition being found in a year or five or ten?
On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 06:01:25AM -0500, Gabriel Rocha wrote:
The latter statement my well be true, I don't use the network, nor know the ratios of good/bad traffic. But I am very curious to find out what
I don't have data either. I'm guessing the "bad" traffic part is 95-98%. (I'm extrapolating from absence, as the only responses to the abuse address were people harassed by idiots).
would be considered geographically "safe" jurisdictions in this sense. Not just today, but given the general trend, where would you see such a jurisdition being found in a year or five or ten?
While there is a distinct trend in NA, EU and elsewhere to try to snoop, and to control, it's not obvious the development is permanent, and irreversible. P2P traffic in general is increasing, and trivial remixing and encryption is becoming more and more widespread (arrr!). Spam and malware traffic also increases the noise level. You could claim your machine was infected with mixmaster malware, or something. -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:
If mixter won't survive, it's due to spammers, and malware spreaders.
I disagree. Except for the early days, spammers have been little more than a low volume nuisance on Mix. What killed mix was it's complexity - Joe Blow can't figure out how to use it, and new reops have a hell of a time getting a node running (with pingers and other required tools). Take away complexity, and Mix *could* flourish - in spite of the fedz. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
And don't forget...Spam is a good thing as long as it doesn't clog the Mixmaster bandwidth. -TD
From: "J.A. Terranson" <measl@mfn.org> To: Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> CC: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: punkly current events Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:19:26 -0600 (CST)
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:
If mixter won't survive, it's due to spammers, and malware spreaders.
I disagree. Except for the early days, spammers have been little more than a low volume nuisance on Mix. What killed mix was it's complexity - Joe Blow can't figure out how to use it, and new reops have a hell of a time getting a node running (with pingers and other required tools).
Take away complexity, and Mix *could* flourish - in spite of the fedz.
-- Yours,
J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF
Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable.
The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top.
Rev Dr Michael Ellner
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
And don't forget...Spam is a good thing as long as it doesn't clog the Mixmaster bandwidth.
No, it's not. There are other things that can produce the same cover effects: cron jobs or daemons that fire off random chaff work just as well, without the mess of allowing UCE. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
-----BEGIN TYPE III ANONYMOUS MESSAGE----- Message-type: plaintext On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:
Take away complexity, and Mix *could* flourish - in spite of the fedz.
What about mixminion? Setting up a node is about five minutes of work on a somewhat current Linux system. -----END TYPE III ANONYMOUS MESSAGE-----
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Nomen Nescio wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:
Take away complexity, and Mix *could* flourish - in spite of the fedz.
What about mixminion? Setting up a node is about five minutes of work on a somewhat current Linux system.
I began to implement a mixminion system just before it's release, and got sidetracked by paying work :-/ From what little time I spent on the prerelease, it was already a big improvement in installation, although to be honest, I never got a chance to look closely enough at it to have comfort as to any protocol changes (I believe there were some?). I still have that mixm box sitting in the rack, waiting for me to get off my lazy ass and play with it: I will try and make that a priority during january. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
participants (8)
-
Eugen Leitl -
Gabriel Rocha -
J.A. Terranson -
Joseph Ashwood -
Major Variola (ret) -
Nomen Nescio -
R.A. Hettinga -
Tyler Durden