Begin forwarded message: From: Jonathan Weinberg <[1]weinberg@msen.com> Date: November 23, 2007 1:50:59 PM EST To: David Farber <[2]dave@farber.net> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: fingerprinting in Japan Joi's absolutely right (as were other folks who wrote to me off-list) that the US does requires photography and fingerprinting from folks *applying* for immigrant visas and green cards -- so it would be wrong to say that the US program is much less privacy-intrusive than Japan's just by virtue of not requiring "every time" fingerprinting for green card holders. (Joi's also right that the US program is broader than Japan's in that DHS makes even folks just passing through as transit visitors satisfy full visa and fingerprinting requirements, and in his broader point that US citizens complaining about Japan's program are finding a mote in another's eye while ignoring the beam in their own.) There's still something interesting going on here, though, regarding "every time" fingerprinting for green card holders. Japan has instituted "every time" fingerprinting for permanent residents *even though* permanent residents in Japan have already been fingerprinted and photographed for their alien registration cards. That approach is consistent with a key professed reason for the US fingerprinting requirement, which is to ensure that the person presenting herself at the border is the same person to whom the travel documents were issued. If the US DHS really, really took seriously its desire to make sure that people weren't entering the US with forged or stolen green cards, it would require "every time" fingerprinting of permanent residents just as Japan seems to be doing. But it's apparently decided that it doesn't want to deal with the political fallout of such a move; in terms of their ability to push back politically, folks entering the US on temporary visas or through the Visa Waiver Program are an easier target. Jon Jonathan Weinberg Professor of Law, Wayne State University [3]weinberg@wayne.edu From: Joichi Ito <[4]jito@neoteny.com> Date: November 22, 2007 4:26:14 PM EST To: [5]dave@farber.net Cc: [6]ip@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [IP] Re: fingerprinting in Japan The US requires fingerprints for many kinds of visas including some benefits for permanent residents. Also, I think they require a photograph showing your earlobe as another biometric. It's on your card. It is slightly different from requiring a finger print every time you enter the country, but it's not really true that "fingerprinting requirements don't apply to permanent residents." See: [7]http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9a c89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=b6629c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD &vgnextchannel=b6629c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD Also, as far as I know, the Japanese are not fingerprinting transit passengers. My understanding is that even if you are just connecting via a US city, you still have to fill out the forms and get scanning. Basically I think that expecting us to go through US fingerprinting to visit the US, then deciding not to go to Japan because of fingerprinting is slightly hypocritical unless you have been vocally opposed to the fingerprinting in the US. Anyway, maybe this is a good opportunity for American who travel to Japan to take a good look at what the US does to its visitors and be reflective. I think a lot of Japanese government behavior just tracks what the US does and often is "encouraged" by the US. See crypto exports, the new Japanese corporate law or "JSOX" and copyright terms for other examples. - Joi _________________________________________________________________ [8]Archives [9][feed-icon-10x10.jpg] [10]Powered by Listbox References 1. mailto:weinberg@msen.com 2. mailto:dave@farber.net 3. mailto:weinberg@wayne.edu 4. mailto:jito@neoteny.com 5. mailto:dave@farber.net 6. mailto:ip@v2.listbox.com 7. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=b6629c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=b6629c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD 8. http://v2.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now 9. http://v2.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ 10. http://www.listbox.com/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE