Re: Cypherpunks response to viral stimuli
Sunder wrote... "That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No TLA would do that. They'd simply watch upstream of each node. They can wait for outgoing messages and collect email addresses to their heart's content...." I'm not sure I understand this. On Cypherpunks we always seem to assume that the TLAs have infinite amounts of cash, and that's just not the case. If they can spend a couple of bucks to flush out a list rather than mount some major operation that's what they'll do, if for no other reason than to keep their exposure down. And if they're going to Gitmo me one day, I sure as hell want them to spend a few hundred thou rather than a few hundred, and hopefully leave a paper trail so I can sue the crap out of 'em if somehow I survive. And in case it's not clear, I'm suggesting that it may be useful for them to deliberately create a "fake" virus that is easily detectable, and so cull the bounce messages. -TD
From: sunder <sunder@sunder.net> To: petard <petard@freeshell.org> CC: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com>, cypherpunks@minder.net Subject: Re: Cypherpunks response to viral stimuli Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:22:01 -0500
petard wrote:
Along these same lines, mightn't a TLA or similar induce someone downstream of them to spam the cypherpunks remailers and collect the identities of those who complain?
That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No TLA would do that. They'd simply watch upstream of each node. They can wait for outgoing messages and collect email addresses to their heart's content....
By definition, if you've subscribed to cypherpunks, you can expect all of the TLA's to at least know your email address.
If anything, you can blame the slew of anti-SCO and non-SCO related virii for the lack of messages... If you were going to pull some half assed conspiracy theory, you might have come up with something more original - like "Maybe the TLA's are sending the virii so as to choke off the lists..." But that's dumb as well for far more obvious reasons:
See, the cypherpunks is a gold mine for the TLA's. All they have to do is subscribe, listen, and wait. At some point, some poor dumb nutcase like Jim Bell will do something silly. The polyester suited knights will hit the champale and have a nice party on his ass...
Man, the collective IQ's of the posters on this list has certainly been dropping lower and lower... sheesh!
_________________________________________________________________ High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1
Can a TLA please give some sign here, any sign - just ack that you know the list exists, otherwise the legitimacy of cpunks is definitely going down the drain. Looks like a Berlin wall syndrome. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
Tyler Durden wrote:
And in case it's not clear, I'm suggesting that it may be useful for them to deliberately create a "fake" virus that is easily detectable, and so cull the bounce messages.
Right, why should they do something passive that doesn't tip their hand and allows them to collect the information they need, when instead they can do something active and stupid that could possibly give away their position. Think about it. In fact, apply Occam's Razor to this, in fine, thin slices: If you were a TLA and you'd want to send a "fake" virus, it would need to be something that would trip every anti-virus software that anyone could possibly run, but yet, not be a virus, and you'd need to do so without giving away your IP address - while making it look like it came from lots of sources. If you'd only use a single IP address, the guy that runs the node would likely block you as a virus source. Then, on top of it, you'd have to *HOPE* that none of your targets saw the real version of the virus, and then bothered to compare the two, or worse yet, dissect the decoy you've sent, and figure out that it isn't real. How's would you do this and have it be successful? Unless, of course, you wish to claim that the TLA's wrote the anti-SCO viruses? In which case, there's a lovely bridge between Brooklyn and Manhattan that I would gladly sell you... Real cheap... it's a bit old, but it's in decent shape... No? How about some nice foil hats? Real cheap... For you, only $100 each (plus tax of course)... guaranteed to be made of 100% aluminum foil. Or would you instead, simply just stick a Carnivore machine at one hop above each CDR node that you're interested in, and gather the information you wanted with nearly zero risk of tipping your hand? Or even simpler than that, get a hotmail or yahoomail account and just subscribe. Which of the above scenarios makes the most sense in terms of Occam's? P.S.: I stand by my original statement: the collective IQ of the posters on list is dropping.
participants (3)
-
Morlock Elloi -
sunder -
Tyler Durden