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On Tuesday, November 13, 2001, at 11:00 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Faustine says:
There's no reason you can't keep your hardcore beliefs to yourself while doing the most rigorous and objective analysis you can.
This is an attractive, but, alas, naive plan.
So your closeted-libertarian-analyst presents a "rigorous and objective analysis" saying raising the minimum wage will put people out of work? Your opponents will present someone who argues otherwise. Your analyst says that gun control saves lives? Opponents will ring up Handgun Control. Your analyst says that his interpretation of the Commerce Clause is the correct one? Someone else will cite chapter and verse otherwise.
Besides the above points, a "rigorous and objective analysis" is work for bean counters...and is only interesting to other bean counters. What got the Cypherpunks rolling was not "rigorous and objective analysis." Faustine has gradstudentitus. She or he will likely get his or her Masters or maybe even Ph.D. and will then vanish into the bowels of the Office of Implementational Policy Assessment, commuting to work each morning on the Metro, hoping to advance to GS-13 level before age 40, and generally living a life of quiet desperation. But her or his analysis papers will be suitably dry and rigorous...and ignorable.
Sadly enough, you're probably right. But isn't it about time somebody started trying? I think so.
Again, you're naive. Cato, CEI, IHS, IJ, have tried. Victory is not exactly expected anytime soon.
Might as well write code, as someone once said.
Two of our sessions at that Sierra retreat were vastly more useful than 99% of the CATO and related "dry and rigorous" b.s. papers. One was a session on mapping the security holes in Bay Area government installations...most gubment sites are trivially accessible from wireless connections: sit in the parking lot a few buildings away and take down the Evil Empire! Another interesting late night session was on ways to knock down airliners. The obvious approaches, but also a bunch of creative new ideas. Not for the faint of heart, of course, as a few pounds of Semtex up the butt is not exactly pleasant...but it's damned near undetectable by even their multimillion dollar scanners. The thermite attack on bridge suspension cables also got discussed. Sarin, ricin, and India-1967 were covered in another session. Meanwhile, grey burrowcrats are burrowing into their burrows in D.C., busily writing "rigorous and objective" reports on the benefits of welfare and why gun control is cost-effective. Feh. I hope to see the day when millions of them are gassed. --Tim May, Citizen-unit of of the once free United States " The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. "--Thomas Jefferson, 1787
On Wednesday, November 14, 2001, at 12:12 AM, Tim May wrote:
Meanwhile, grey burrowcrats are burrowing into their burrows in D.C., busily writing "rigorous and objective" reports on the benefits of welfare and why gun control is cost-effective. Feh. I hope to see the day when millions of them are gassed.
So did you discuss what was going to be done *after* the current government is destroyed? What sort of government will follow? Or was this just an exercise in later day bakuninism? I'm not (just) being a smart ass. If the necessary stuff was in place (fully anonymous digital currencies, blacknets, Bell's AP system etc.) the state would be gradually rendered ineffective, then die on the vine over a great enough time that people could adapt, institutions and attitudes could adjust. You can't just strike off a slaves chains and say "You're Free", that slave has to understand how to deal with freedom, he has to have the skills and thought processes to live without his "master" taking care of him. The vast majority of the people in this country lack one or more of skills and thought processes to live w/out an effective government. What are you going to do about that? Or is your purpose, like those Russian Nihilists, just to smash the state? -- "Remember, half-measures can be very effective if all you deal with are half-wits."--Chris Klein
-- On 14 Nov 2001, at 0:52, Petro wrote:
So did you discuss what was going to be done *after* the current government is destroyed? What sort of government will follow?
Preferably none whatsoever.
Or was this just an exercise in later day bakuninism?
Bakunin was a moderate, who sometimes advocated a conventional socialist government, though he changed his mind when he started to imagine a socialist government run by Marx or his fellow Marxists.
You can't just strike off a slaves chains and say "You're Free", that slave has to understand how to deal with freedom, he has to have the skills and thought processes to live without his "master" taking care of him. The vast majority of the people in this country lack one or more of skills and thought processes to live w/out an effective government.
When the slaves were freed in the civil war, their death rate went up to extremely high levels, and the death rate among their descendants still has not fallen to normal levels. Despite that we did not see any of them call for a return to the old system. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 9kwrQutH0kRTaB8Rj+zkWHeDBKQktQ2gA4Xj21kl 4evNogxciSix8raejhW3yU6SKuHfoLpiySVDX9sdc
participants (4)
-
Declan McCullagh -
jamesd＠echeque.com -
Petro -
Tim May