Ken Brown[SMTP:k.brown@ccs.bbk.ac.uk] Jim Dixon wrote:

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If anyone cares, the interpersonal violence rate is considerably higher in the UK. Recent statisics on crime in industrialised countries (and therefore excluding South Africa) showed Australia leading the world and the UK second. America trailed far behind.

Of course - that's the point. Brits are no less violent than USAns, no less likely to be criminal, no more polite or neighbourly (in fact rather less). But we are *far* less likely to be killed or seriously injured by our neighbours, or by the State. And part of the reason for that is that "normal" people don't have guns in Britain.

Ken (still really not wanting to restart the Great Permanent Floating Internet Gun Rant)

Ken: I'm sure the apparent discounting of the US murder rate by some American list members seems inexplicable to you. At the risk of being extremely non-PC, I think I can explain why. The distribution of murders in the US is very heavily skewed towards groups which are unlikely to be on the list, or acquainted to people on the list. In short, there is a large disparity in the murder rates for white, educated professionals (who make up most the membership of this list) vs poor blacks or latinos. If you look at the murder rate for white middle/upper class folk, you'll find its quite comparable to Britain and other European countries. No person I have ever known personally has fallen to murder, a statement which I expect could be made by most the American posters to this list. While it's sad that people don't factor in the societal risks borne by 'other groups' in this country, it's just human nature. Peter Trei