Skepticism of the NSA-affiliation list is warranted. Just as much as> skepticism about that NSA and its global ilk have been tapping all > international and domestic telecommunications. > > Nobody believed that was going on, and some ignorant fools still > disbelieve, or worse, cannot bear to believe a technology so enjoyable > could be so violative.> > The telcos have been screwing their customers from day one, so> why would ISPs be any different? The Internet is a spying machine> just like the telecomms and

Olaf> >> >----- End forwarded message -----> >-- > >Eugen* Leitl <a

In NYC it's common to see 9/11 conspiracy theorists, and I am always amazed. Basically, if a conspiracy is out in the open, who gives a sh*t? Whether 9/11 was planned by Bushites or not, the result is a huge series of crimes and political vandalism such that 9/11 is a footnote in comparison. My thinking is that conspiracy theorists would rather believe that 'this was all planned' rather than the incompentent and complete cluster f*ck it actually is. They'd rather believe someone's in control and 'screwing us over' rather than the reality of chaos. I'm interested in knowing more about the China issue...having lived there in the 80s and speaking the language (yes, Stoopid Cypherpunk Tyler Durden speaks Chinese), I'm sometimes able to read Chinese agitprop (though I'll grant that it's fairly easy once you get the hang of it). -TD> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 05:26:15 -0500> To: eugen@leitl.org> From: jya@pipeline.com> Subject: Re: another seeming attack on my server's DirPort> CC: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net; olaf.selke@blutmagie.de; or-talk@freehaven.net> postal services have always been, get > used to it, or get over it, or get off it, or give up the addiction.> > Lesson One for the conspiracy deniers: The only true conspiracy > theorists are the spies, they could not exist unless they kept the> natsec threats and denials achurning.> > No infosec system is as effective as promoting that it is safe> and secure. Blind faith in the reliability and trustworthiness of> widespread communication technology is damn comforting.> > Preaching to the choir here, to be sure.> > At 10:22 AM 12/21/2007 +0100, you wrote:> >Paging John Young.> >> >----- Forwarded message from Olaf Selke <olaf.selke@blutmagie.de> -----> >> >From: Olaf Selke <olaf.selke@blutmagie.de>> >Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:42:13 +0100> >To: or-talk@freehaven.net> >Subject: Re: another seeming attack on my server's DirPort> >User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)> >Reply-To: or-talk@freehaven.net> >> >Scott Bennett wrote:> >> >> I still don't understand the thinking of those people. I have no> reason> >> to believe that the Chinese government is allowing the NSA to control IP> >> addresses allocated to, and served inside, China. It makes no sense at> all,> >> and leads me to conclude that the whole list is worthless.> >> >I do agree. The same here. I don't believe all German major Telcos are> >NSA affiliated.> >> href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org>

______________________________________________________________> >ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org> >8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

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