CDR: Treatment of subjugated people (and bagpipes)
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Sean Roach wrote:
As regards Petro's response to same. Read up on the history of the U.S.A., and U.K. Unless I've misinterpreted, slaves were forbidden to learn to read in the U.S.
Not exactly. They weren't forbidden to learn; however, it was forbidden for anyone (including other slaves) to teach them. It amounts to the same general thing (instruction being unavailable to them) but when a bunch of slaves gathered around Sojourner Truth for lessons in reading, it was her that was breaking the law, not them.
Native Americans were made to give up thier traditions in favor of "civilized" customs.
Yeah. And some of them did and some of them didn't.
And the Irish were similary denied the ability to read, or to play thier traditional music. (Bards tended to sing songs counter to the english policies.)
It's a long damn tradition, unfortunately. In England, it goes back to the Norman invasion and the way the Saxons were treated; but the Normans were just copying the Romans, and the Romans were just copying the Greeks.
Last I heard, the bagpipe was still considered a weapon.
There's a guy who gives Foghorn "concerts" in Golden Gate Park. He has to wear hearing protection and a padded suit, otherwise it leaves bruises all over his body and he can't hear for a few days. His face still winds up black-and-blue, especially around the eyes. There's a law against playing amplified instruments without a permit -- but foghorns aren't amplified, they're just LOUD. After hearing this guy once, I did an interesting study in sound physics, which leads me to believe it is probably possible to create a vehicle-mounted, deisel-powered bagpipe-like device that could be used to play tunes and which would simultaneously destroy buildings. Considering the bagpipe a weapon isn't that far off.... and not just for reasons of the ideas behind the songs they traditionally accompany.
If I heard right, It became illegal to speak Scottish Gaelic, for a time.
When the culture of a conqueror is sufficiently different, and they can get away with it, they always try to take the native language away. That takes away all the old songs and poetry, and most of the stories, and makes it easier to stamp your own culture on a subjugated people. Bear
On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Ray Dillinger wrote:
And the Irish were similary denied the ability to read, or to play thier traditional music. (Bards tended to sing songs counter to the english policies.)
It's a long damn tradition, unfortunately. In England, it goes back to the Norman invasion and the way the Saxons were treated; but the Normans were just copying the Romans, and the Romans were just copying the Greeks.
It's easy to look at history in this way, seeing some people as villians and other as victims. But do remember that St Patrick wasn't Irish at all. He was an English boy, stolen by Irish pirates and sold into slavery in Ireland. And for centuries English kings used Irish mercenaries to subdue their unruly subjects.
When the culture of a conqueror is sufficiently different, and they can get away with it, they always try to take the native language away. That takes away all the old songs and poetry, and most of the stories, and makes it easier to stamp your own culture on a subjugated people.
But this is mostly just laziness. When Patrick didn't do what he was told, I'm sure that his masters made no effort to learn his language. They just shouted at him louder in Gaelic. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015
On Mon, 04 Sep 2000, Jim Dixon wrote:
an invasion and the way the Saxons were treated; but the Normans were just copying the Romans, and the Romans were just copying the Greeks.
It's easy to look at history in this way, seeing some people as villians and other as victims. But do remember that St Patrick wasn't Irish at all. He was an English boy, stolen by Irish pirates and sold into slavery in Ireland. And for centuries English kings used Irish mercenaries to subdue their unruly subjects.
Actually, St. Patrick is mostly a mythical creature constructed from the actual Roman ruling family Patricias. The whole St. Patrick chasing out the snakes is clearly a metaphor for the Roman church killing off the pagans. As is typical amonst the Roman church, the peasants, once suitably under control are made to believe the destruction of the old way of life was actually a blessing. The Romans pushed this on them until the old ways faded into the memory hole.
participants (3)
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Jim Burnes -
Jim Dixon -
Ray Dillinger