A one Nomen said:

There was an interesting proposal by Dave Del Torto yesterday at SFBAY cypherpunk meeting. He suggested that cypherpunks were, sort of, invited to help a newly founded international police force. These guys help the international court of justice, and track down criminals like Milosevic, bin Laden and others. In their investigations they need strong crypto, because sometimes they operate in the hostile environments.

Before you support the ICC - know that there is substantial opposition to this entity, indeed the US was among the last 2 signatories - Clinton signed on his way out (along with Israel, I think.). Many of you have strong feelings in regard to the US Constitution, sovereignty, and nation-states. A copy of my original post of 2/19/01 is below. Links for information and investigation: http://iccnow.org (pro ICC) http://www.thelibertycommittee.org (con ICC) My personal opinion: neither side has adequately responded to my concerns. In fact, both sides seem overly emotionally charged... as it always is. However, the ICC CLEARLY bears the burden of persuasion.

If any cypherpunk needs a get-out-of-jail pass, this is the chance to earn one.

[1] Please send the international immunity pass so I can add this mythical beast to my form bank. [2] Heh. You might not make the friends you think. While international human rights is among one of the most worthwhile endeavors, many members of the executive branch, legislative branch and most notably - US intelligence communities and US Military are VIOLENTLY opposed to the ICC. On the other hand, a number of respected human rights groups that I support are violently in favor of the ICC. So is the American Bar Association, I believe. And, nobody likes the bad guys.

Volunteers should contact Dave.

Obviously, Dave is a good guy, fighting bad guys is a good cause, I do think the ICC has something to say for itself. I certainly do not support "mass rapists" and other sick ilk and I think bringing them to justice is a worthy cause. However, I find "world justice" a problematic concept in practice. I think the role of the sovereign is to stand between YOU and other sovereigns, and that war and conflict is always bloody, sick, and never gentlemanly. I fear the use of treaty-power, and I think it has been overextended to reach individuals and deny them the protections and rights of their sovereign. ===================================== My previous post, edited for clarity: ===================================== <snip> ... according to some people's opinions of the International Criminal Court. Many say we will be yielding our sovereignty, our Constitution, and our procedural protections to this Court. (ICC advocates, on the other hand, are quick to point out concord between the ICC and the US Constitution: http://www.wfa.org/issues/icc/usconst.html .) The ICC is an international court, judging _individuals_, not nation-states, in regard to: "the crime of genocide; crimes against humanity; war crimes; and the crime of aggression." Many have expressed concern over subsequent extensions of the Court's subject matter jurisdiction. One commentator stated that even if a nation is not a party to the Rome Statute, the ICC can still investigate a crime within that nation according to ICC rules. [I haven't read all the documentation, and I'm not about to, so I can't say about such nuances....] <snip> ******** I invite, acknowledge, and appreciate opposing viewpoints. I admit my fears in this regard are slippery-slope, but who says this couldn't move into datacrime/cybercrime, I've already got the cybercrime treaty and cyberterrorism/INFOWAR is considered an act of aggression everywhere I know. The UN is a secret court and they strangle press and free speech rights. I balk at the thought of somebody ripping a fellow-American out of the US Constitution and imposing their notions of justice, procedure, investigation and discovery processes, no matter what precedents have been set in this area. IMHO, the ICC goes too far. That is a political entity. Is that an American-centric view? YES. Am I willing to compromise it to catch the worst evils on earth? NO. I've seen the pictures of horror, I am still unwilling to negotiate away the constitutional rights of American citizens. You have the right to be judged by a jury of your peers, not strangers from another country. Until the ICC addresses these concerns, they can kiss my ass. ~Aimee

There must be a big delay in the remailer. This is a week late. It should have been the first of April. Nomen Nescio wrote:

There was an interesting proposal by Dave Del Torto yesterday at SFBAY cypherpunk meeting. He suggested that cypherpunks were, sort of, invited to help a newly founded international police force. These guys help the international court of justice, and track down criminals like Milosevic, bin Laden and others. In their investigations they need strong crypto, because sometimes they operate in the hostile environments.

If any cypherpunk needs a get-out-of-jail pass, this is the chance to earn one.

Volunteers should contact Dave.

At the risk of taking things seriously which were meant as trolls - If so-called cypherpunks (there is no movement) have any self-proclaimed expertise it is in using computers for communications and cryptography. I think that many governments already know how to do that. Two or three of them are quite good at it. And what is this "track down" of which you speak? The US government (& probably the Russian & the British as well, and I wouldn't put it past the Indians or even the Chinese) probably know exactly where bin Laden is this week. Everybody knows exactly where Milosevic is supposed to be - in the best room in the best jail in Belgrade. Cypherpunks (who aren't a movement) write code (or once said they did). You're going to get him out by your expert declarative coding techniques? And which side are you on anyway? Why should someone, just because they are a cypherpunk, (Sorry, just because they think in a cypherpunkly way sometimes - there are no such things as cypherpunks, there is no movement) why should they want to track down bin Laden anyway? Maybe some of them approve of rich businessmen who hole up in the hills somewhere with a lot of guns and money, ignore the State, and plot against the US government? Maybe some cypherpunks are Taliban, maybe some are nationalist Serbs, maybe some are loonies, maybe some just have a fetish about guns & like to see them used (especially on someone else). Why assume what side these guys are on? Anyway, at least a few of you guys are anarchists. It is obviously an appropriate thing for anarchists to be helping your government impose their will on foreigners. It just goes with the territory, right? Famous supporters of neocolonialism, those anarchists. Always putting on uniforms and obeying orders and marching off to some foreign country to napalm the natives. Pay no attention to the wizard. It is the anarchists behind the curtain who are really running the deal. Ken Cypherpunks: there is no movement, as the Pope's friends said to Galileo.